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Categorized | Banking & Finance
Iraqi Dinar Revaluation Enthusiasts are Unaware of Bernie Madoff’s Fame
Posted on 29 March 2011.
Pages: 1 2
By Tom Cleveland, market analyst for Forex Traders, exclusively for Iraq Business News. Forex Traders is an online resource for the foreign exchange market.
“Buy on the rumor, sell on the news” is a time-honored investment phrase that is oftentimes more confusing than the wisdom it attempts to impart. The meaning relates primarily to company securities that appreciate in expectation of a big news announcement. Early speculation drives ups the price, such that when the real announcement is made, most investors sell on the news to take their profits, often driving the price down, rather than up. “Pump and Dump” stock frauds also follow a similar scenario, but in this case, criminals benefit and investors lose.
A similar situation has been building for years, some say as many as eight years, surrounding the potential “revaluation” of the Iraqi Dinar. As the rumor would have it, the Iraqi economy has stabilized, and the potential for enormous foreign currency reserves from increased oil exports will drive the value of the Dinar to unconscious levels versus the U.S Dollar. The government authorities will be forced to revalue the currency from 1,175 to 3 per Dollar, resulting in an outrageous windfall for anyone owning stockpiles of the currency. Does something here sound a little too good to be true?
In actuality, the Iraqi Dinar, or “IQD”, is a “controlled” currency. The central bank of Iraq determines the exchange rate and must support that rate by maintaining adequate foreign currency reserves to handle capital flows across its borders. The IMF permits countries with a transitional economy to implement currency controls in order to stabilize their economy during its redevelopment phase. Presently, international banks will not accept the Dinar, and it is not traded on any forex exchange. Actual purchases can be made through currency dealers that have been authorized to buy and sell banknotes that are already in circulation.
Pages: 1 2
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534 Responses to “Iraqi Dinar Revaluation Enthusiasts are Unaware of Bernie Madoff’s Fame”
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Stew made a thousand posts on various IQD articles explaining in depth ( with links and proof) that this big phony RV will never happen. Just read the comment sections on IQD articles in the banking and finance section.Some of the rebuttals from the Dinar Dreamers are quite amusing too.
you can also read Stew post on Iraq Central Bank ‘To remove 3 Zeroes from Dinar” New Report on Investment in Iraq on this site. just read some.
Chasting… I have many post on this site. Look on the right and click “Popular”. I have comments in many of those.
LZ is probabably referering to this post I made the other day when some very uninformed person tried to compare the Iraqi dinar to the Kuwaiti dinar.
I assume that since you “know all there is to know about this currency”, that you are aware that the Iraqi dinar is already 7.6 times more valuable than the Kuwaiti dinar.
Here is the post…
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/11/11/iraqi-dinars-one-of-the-most-foolhardy-investments-you-can-make/
It is preposterously unreasonable to believe Iraq’s current currency could return to that old value. The new currency that will be issued will be worth about $1, but it will take 1000 of the current dinars to get 1 of the new dinar.
The Kuwait comparison is childishly foolish.
The exchange rate of a currency is only half of what a currency is actually worth. The other half of the equation is amount of currency in circulation.
When Iraq had that great rate that pumpers talk about they had a total money supply (m2) of about 30 Billion dinar. I’ve never seen a breakdown of cash vs electronic money, but say it was 50/50, same as today, that means Iraq had 15 billion dinar in circulation back when they had that good rate.
Iraq’s latest currency in circulation number has actually ballooned recently to 39 Trillion dinar… with a total m2 of 70 Trillion. So they roughly have 2000 times more currency now then they did when they had the good rate. I don’t know how much more simple it can get for people to understand why the rate is where it is today. 2 thousand times more currency, 2 thousand times lower rate.
Kuwait… look at this link.
http://www.cbk.gov.kw/cbkweb/servlet/cbkmain?Action=mtbl&archive=201203&tbl=RM02
Kuwait has 1.2 Billion dinar issued.
Compare that to the 40 Trillion Iraq has issued.
Iraq has 33,000 times more currency issued.
So for every one Kuwaiti dinar out, there’s 33,000 Iraqi dinar. How could anyone think those two currencies should have about the same exchange rate. That’s simply nuts.
Kuwait has 1.2 billion, worth $3.6 each, so that’s $4.3 billion dollars worth of currency.
Iraq has 39 Trillion dinar, worth .00085 each, that’s $33 billion dollars worth.
Kuwait dinar is worth $4.3 billion
Iraqi dinar is worth $33 billion.
Iraqi dinar is currently worth 7.6 times MORE than the Kuwaiti dinar.
Take this to any guru and have them explain it.
They will make up BS about Iraq having already removed a lot of their currency. That’s a huge lie. The CBI reports the number and it has been repeated a number of times in the delete 3 zero articles. There is absolutely zero proof that Iraq has reduced currency in circulation… and there is tons of proof supplied by the Central Bank of Iraq, the IMF, and hundreds of delete 3 zero articles stating the amount of dinar in circulation… it all proves the gurus are lying through their teeth.
stew there are also articles that say the old notes will not lose their face value and theres also many articles that the cbi talks about needing to raise the value of the dinar and your last stat about iraq being more valuable id say ask an iraqi citizen which one they’d rather have in their pocket
Rich… it’s almost as if you don’t undestand exchange rates even at the most basic level.
Joe Iraqi has a job. He makes a certain amount of dinar every week. Let’s say it’s 100,000 a week. If he doesn’t want dinar he can chnage those into dollars, he gets about $100. If he wants to carry around Kuwaiti dinar he can get about 30 Kuwaiti dinar for his 100,000 Iraqi dinar. It doesn’t matter… he has the same value no mater which he has.
Rich,
[offensive comment removed] How long will it take before you realize the dream is dead?
rich, just agree to disagree. You know what you know and they know what they know. Its an investment that obviously spurs emotion and thats what makes both side so passionate in their beliefs. Kinda nice when you think about how concerned they are with how you spend your hard earned money. =)Was it your money or their money that you purchased dinars? lol. AGREE TO DISAGREE. Move on down the road to the next investment.
chasting i hear ya lz you still have your dinar right? lol and stew im going to show your comments previous to your last post to someone whos alot smarter than i am and im sure he will reply but this whole iraq thing was planned years ago called the iraq project i highly doubt its authors had a lop in their minds when they started it
[offensive comment removed]
the only RV is an acronym for “recreation vehicle”
okie the dopey said its going to rv tonight and the back side over the other side of the front under the other screens are reading 666 his brothers sister cuzzin 2nd brother said so .lol
You guys on this thread should read some of Barry’s latest comments on this one, particularly pages 4 & 5:-
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/11/11/iraqi-dinars-one-of-the-most-foolhardy-investments-you-can-make/comment-page-4
One “pumper” even turned up to argue – had his a*s handed to him – then ran off (as they all do on serious non-pumper owned investment forums where they can’t hide behind rampant censorship and have no response to debunking the impossible maths and “confused economics” behind it beyond child-like personal attacks)…
Very well researched & articulated posts Barry & Stew.
Average rent in Iraq is approx 350,000 Dinar. 1 litre of milk is 1,600 Dinar. Loaf of bread is 1,300 Dinar. You think that if Dinar’s are magically and secretly declared on parity with Dollars – without a lop or redenominated repricing – then Iraqi’s will pay $350,000 *per month* rents post RV, and over $1,000 for a loaf of bread & litre of milk? That’s so silly it’s not even worth mocking…
Of course the Dinar will lop and will be priced as any other redenomination (and common sense should tell you it will not be done “in secret” if they have to reprice everything in the country, change all ATM’s, change accounting software, etc…)
robert you need to do some research i see they are going to raise the value of the dinar not lop it what would be the point of coming out with lower denoms which we know they are
Lol… Your delusional Rich!!
lz instead of talking chit why dont you either do your own research or get out of this investment apparently the pressure from your family and friends is too much for you
“robert you need to do some research i see they are going to raise the value of the dinar not lop it what would be the point of coming out with lower denoms which we know they are”
Rich – you’re the one who needs “research” as it’s exactly the same thing! Stop being so patronizing in claiming anyone who disagree with you “needs educating” when you clearly don’t understand the multiple definitions yourself. Saying “raising zeroes is different from a lop” is like saying “water is different from H2O”! “Raising the value”, “cutting zeroes”, “lop” and “redenomination” all mean the same thing means – just like “dollar”, “buck”, “USD” and “greenback” all mean the “US Dollar”.
And to answer “what would be the point” – The point of redenominations is to take out all the prior inflation and bring bank-note denominations back down to manageable levels and regional commonality to avoid further “Dollarisation” (where enough faith is lost due to all the zeroes that Iraqi’s trade with $ and not Dinars). By redenominating, Iraqi’s will use dollars / euro’s less and dinar’s more hopefully causing a gradual appreciation over the next decade via increase in demand for trade in local currency. Why do you think the process exists and has been used dozens of times if it is “pointless”? It isn’t “pointless” – it’s just not a get-rich-quick that some very desperate people have formed a cult out of on the back of following a group of scamsters and start making up their own word definitions of what they want it to mean.
Rich… do you realize how rediculous your statement is? That’s exactly what a lop is… A lop is the act of issuing a new currency (lower denominatons) to replace an existing currency (higher denomination) at a rate of 1 for 10, 1 for 100, 1 for 1000 or some other factor of 10. In this case Iraq has said 100′s of times that they will delete 3 zeros, so it will be a 1 for 1000 exchange.
Point is a lop ALWAYS involves issuing lower denominations. So your question of why would they issue lowere denoms if they are lopping really makes you look a bit foolish.
And more stunning Rich… is that you made the same foolish comment weeks ago on this baord and it was explained to you then… yet you continue to push the same ignorant position. I know Kaperoni is your hero… is he the one who keeps making this statement?
the debate is moronic for both sides. Ive said before…Barry/Stew your against it..great. Go find another hobby worth while like feeding the poor or any type of meaningful volunteer work. The fact that you 2 have wrapped your life or very least your spare time being the advocates for anti dinar investment is really a waste of time dont you think? Let those that have invested in the dinar win or lose. Whats it matter to you 2 anyway? Im not being disrespectful but it really seems silly when you look at the “big picture”.(life).This thread has ran its course i do believe…….
I feel like exposing this scam and keeping people from losing their hard earned money to shysters is a pretty good use of a few minutes of my day. I’ll gladly volunteer a few minutes to the cause.
Thanks Stew from your post got me out of this B%#. I got
my dinar off to some poor sucker on e bay I guess it’s true
what people say there is a sucker born everyday.!
lol
I’m with you on this. I think it’s time to make some noise and do our civic duties to expose this scam so innocent saps don’t loose all their dough.
Hmmm….. How do we go about it? Well I have a few news reporter friends on Facebook. I think I’ll forward these threads to them and explain about how some clueless dreamers are getting swindled…… any ideas Stew?
SHYSTERS LOL
they are not SHYSTERS stew, they are CRIMINALS
I lost alot of trust from my friends and family over the dinar
some dont look at me the same. I just pray
no one gets killed over this stuff or something bad happened to them
no ones hard to find these days
This is just one more thing to take advantag of the poor and un educated
and mid class people that on there way to being poor
. hope that’s all some people got!
mrwhite im sorry to hear that you sold your dinar but thats your decision and stew lz and six you guys are amazing iraq is not in the same boat as these countries that have lopped its a complete different situation and anytime you guys think your smart enough to debate either kaperooni or ennorste or russell i can easily set it up let me know if your interested and we can put this baby to bed one way or another hey chast! lol
oh and one more thing mr white i was under the impression you went to dinar alerts and liked the info given there may i ask what happened? good luck either way
chasting – “the debate is moronic for both sides. Ive said before…Barry/Stew your against it..great. Go find another hobby worth while like feeding the poor or any type of meaningful volunteer work”
Yet more predictable attempted censorship when you read something you don’t like. Isn’t it interesting that neither myself or Stew are telling you (or others) not to post – and directly address the economic points – and yet “shut up” and run away from responses to economic points is all you (and one or two others) can do yourself?… And BTW – I already do other “meaningful volunteer work” in the field of volunteering for a charity that assists people with recuperating after an Acquired / Traumatic Brain Injury, so I really don’t need your patronizing judgemental “advice” on what is important in life.
“The fact that you 2 have wrapped your life or very least your spare time being the advocates for anti dinar investment is really a waste of time dont you think?”
I trade currencies for a living, I enjoy it, I know what I’m talking about, and I find the psychology of trading and particularly “millionaire for nothing” suspension of disbelief “advance fee fraud” style scams fascinating. If you don’t like the debate here, then why don’t you go and do something else? Reading between the lines, you seem angry that iraq-businessnews moderators allow serious neutral debate over it unlike certain other Dinar boards who hit the DEL key whenever a “dissenter” ‘attacks’ the lies churned out by salesmen with vested interests by bringing “unwanted honesty” to the table.
All this is “Dinaraholic” Argument No 1. – If you read something you don’t like – attack the person and their need to post it in the hope of silencing them – It’s attempted censorship by character smearing (same propaganda tactics that corrupt, smarmy politicians use) – and it’s utterly childish and so incredibly transparent.
Have a good day, sir, because I’m not going anywhere.
go ahead barry and keep wasting precious minutes of your life commenting on what why were wasting out money on this investment see if i care i cant wait till this thing is over and i have that ha ha moment with you loppers you guys clearly dont have a clue with whats going on in iraq
rich “iraq is not in the same boat as these countries that have lopped its a complete different situation”
No it isn’t – that’s just a sales slogan. What makes Iraq “different”?
1. That they’re under occupation? Well so was Afghanistan and they lopped 1000:1 (from 43000:1 to 43:1) back in 2002.
2. That they have oil? Venezuela has twice as much oil reserves as Iraq – and they lopped 1000:1 back in 2008. Fiat currencies are also NOT valued by oil or any other natural resource – they only affect it (and only marginally) during the year of sale and only then if sold in the local currency (via increased demand for local currency for purchase). If oil is sold in “petro-dollars” or barter for aid or debt relief, there is zero effect.
3. That the IMF has frozen the rate at 1170:1? The IMF openly state its frozen 1170:1 rate is “fair value” given how overprinted the Dinar is, shattering the absurd repeated lies told by pumpers over the years that the “IMF say it’s undervalued”:-
“A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar:”
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/
“anytime you guys think your smart enough to debate either kaperooni or ennorste or russel”
Cult of personality addiction. All most of them do is trawl the net for “stories” involving anything related to Iraq and throw them into a messy tangled heap as “proof” : “Oohh! Look! Iraq has had a perfectly normal currency auction. Proof of the RV!”. “Oohh! Look! Shabibi held a meeting! Proof of the RV!”. “Oohh! Look! Iraq has created 20,000 new jobs! Proof of the RV”. “Oohh! Look! Iraq has installed a few more ATM’s! Proof of the RV”. “Oohh! Look! Oil production has increased 5%! Proof of the RV!”
Rinse and repeat every single week for 9 years…
Kaperoni is a laughing stock. His “argument” that “delete” and “lift” 3 zeroes are “different things” on the back of what a single automated poorly done Google Translate (whilst ignoring dozens of others that say the opposite) shows up pretty much sums up the embarrassment of hanging onto “personalities”. As Robert perfectly put it earlier it’s right up there with developing a cult following out of arguing “water”, “H2O”, “agua” and “vatten” are different things because they’re spelled differently in different languages…
And it’s even more absurd given Shabibi has openly stated in plain English during his last visit to the US that they will redenominate. All your heroes are doing is inventing their own contorted word definitions to keep the illusion alive as long as possible now that Iraq has openly stated no less than 16 times over the past 18 months that they will “redenominate” (and have never – ever – actually used the phrase “RV” – that’s just a headlines crayoned in after recirculation by pumpers desperate for attention).
You won’t find many of these official statements on pumper run Dinar-specific forums because they actively censor anything that discredits their own propaganda:-
April 13th 2011 – “Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Tuesday that the project of Iraqi Dinar re-denomination consisting of removing three zeroes is close to completion. The re-denomination project is believed to be a strategic plan that will be passed to the ministerial council and Parliament once complete. Iraqi economists believe the re-denomination of Iraqi Dinar will not have a major influence on the purchasing power of the Iraqi Dinar which the government has hopes high on it.”
April 16, 2011 – “An advisor of the Iraqi Central Bank, Dr. Mohammed Saleh appearance that the bank adheres to its policy regarding the removal of three zeros from Iraqi dinar traded at present… To that, the adviser to the Central Bank of the appearance of Mohammed Saleh, said that such fears are unwarranted, and that the economic situation in Iraq is good and able to withstand the application of this project, and that this experience had previously been applied in countries such as Turkey, which has by deleting six zeros from the currency before the period is not too distant future.”
June 24th 2011 – “Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Thursday that it is planning to delete the zeros from the Iraqi currency. The new currency will be printed after deleting the zeros and will include the Kurdish language in addition to the Arabic language. It will bear as well photos of Iraq’s civilizations and patrimony in addition to symbols of Iraqi intellectuals and figures”, Saleh noted. On June 19, Iraq’s Central Bank Governor Sanan Al Shebeibi affirmed during the meeting of independent commissions with Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki that the bank is preparing all requirements needed to replace the Iraqi Currency.”
July 2nd 2011 – “The draft of the new currency will be put to a vote in the House of Representatives and if approved by Council House of Representatives, the redenomination project will be implemented. New banknotes will be introduced with dual Kurdish language designs. The Iraqi currency change will not have any effect on the international value of the Iraqi dinar and economy“
Nov 28th 2011 – “Deputy chairman of the ICB Dr Muzher Saleh said the bank is working to issue the new currency in addition to coins in both Arabic and Kurdish. This will include a new 50 Dinar bill with a value of $43 (50,000 current note Dinar).”
Feb 21st 2012 – “AKnews reports that the process of removing three zeros from the Iraqi dinar and replacing current banknotes with new ones will begin in September. The announcement, which will see the Iraqi Central Bank (ICB) re-print 30 trillion dinars ($26 billion), was made despite government fear over the project. The move to delete the zeros will reduce the number of bank notes in circulation and simplify Iraq’s payment system.”
“The change that will take place with the Iraqi currency will change the face value of the dinar and not the real value as measured by the value of Iraqi dinar against the dollar and gold,” Sami Atrushi, Iraqi Finance Committee
“Mahma Khalil, Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of the Economic Committee stated that the new bill will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure it will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market,” explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000.”
Which parts of the bold parts of these official statements are you still having trouble understanding (beyond simply not wanting to believe them)? The “question” of what Iraq will do isn’t up for question any more – the only real issue is the “expectation addiction psychology” of some desperate people following “pied pipers” who swear the grass is blue and the sky is green “because it will make me a millionaire” from swapping a few bank-notes up and back again…
Thanks Barry. (You as well Stew). What amazing posts (especially on the other topic). I’m embarrassed to admit I got sucked into it (bought $1,000 worth) back in 2006 when things were ambiguous. It’s very clear from those (and other) recent statements over the past 18 months though exactly what the truth is. Looking back, there has been a distinct change in tone coming from those you call ‘the pumpers’ since 2010 – a more paranoid “attack” mode of anyone who quotes “dissenting” information mainly out of embarrassment of having past lies debunked.
There’s also been an increasing surge of Dinar sales on EBay from former Dinar holders who’ve seen the light. Looking back, the ‘red flags’ are so obvious – if the Dinar would leap up 1,000x in value – then why are the salesmen selling them to us! And why are the people at the other end in Jordan, Iraq, etc, selling them to American sellers? And why are Iraqi’s using Dollars for many transactions (someone earlier said “Dollarization”?)
Like many, I felt the censorship on some forums was “justified” as it was “annoying” to hear. Looking back though, it was more shared discomfort at having a nice fantasy “attacked”. “Pied piper” is just such a perfect description. I can’t believe I fell for it either. Still I did get 2/3rds of my “investment” back on EBay. I do feel sorry for the last ones holding them though.
Anyway, thanks very much for your posts. Thanks too to iraq-businessnews.com for such a great (and uncensored!) neutral site to talk about it without all the cult of personality silliness, hate-attacks and stupid lies. Ah well, live and learn!
OMG, Barry, I believe your post is what’s called “dropping an atom bomb” in forum-speak! If people still claim Iraq “wont redenominate” after those quotes, they’re brainwashed-beyond-repair conspiracy-addicted cult members.
“desperate people following “pied pipers” who swear the grass is blue and the sky is green”
That is so true…
Yeah, I bought a few Dinar’s in the past. Did what many others have done – got rid of them on Ebay. so many are doing that now! Theres only so long you can suspend disbelief and listen to ego-centric attention seekers just to feel-good about a dream. I feel most sorry for the exchange cashiers who will be forced to call for security to deal with some hyper-ventilating people screaming “WHERE’S MY OTHER $999,000!?!?!? YOU’VE STOLEN IT!!!” when changing back their $1k worth of Dinar notes into $1k of Dollars, post-RD… LOL.
“He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000.” – Head of Iraqi Finance Committee & Iraqi Parliament.
It really doesn’t get plainer English than that folks (to those with their eyes & ears open).