233 Responses to “Iraqi Dinars “One of the Most Foolhardy Investments you can Make””

1. Barry says:

   May 12, 2012 at 9:15 am

   “We are wasting our breath with B&S, oh take out the & and what do we get BS. Yep that’s what those two are BS.”

   As I said earlier, Trevor : “People who know what they’re talking about, talk about the economics. People who don’t just attack people who do’s right to post.”

   The IMF report posted by Stew openly stating the Dinar is currently “fair value” (given the tens of trillions in circulation) seems to be lost on you somewhere…

   “A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar:”
   http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/
2. Lz says:

   May 12, 2012 at 10:32 pm

   What’s your point?
   This investment is one of the most brilliant scheme/ scams in history. The timing is so perfect. The USA is suffering a recession , people are desperate and they desperatly need a savior. Frank , Okie, Delta( Franks make believe scapegoat) Medic, Mailman, etc step up and promise financial security. Now their job is too keep you in a constant state of anticipation, while still pushing the urgency to get more dinars before it’s too late.
   It’s so sad how people are refusing to listen to the truth.
   It reminds me of the Ghostdances of the native Americans ….. They thought that if the all dance and pray nonstop around a fire to bring back all the dead warriors and go back to the days before whitey.
3. Barry says:

   May 13, 2012 at 12:34 am

   cabio – “Any ideas what was happen on period of July 94 to Dec 95?”

   Cabio, what happened was a temporary spike (you should see Turkey’s, LOL) that’s irrelevant as to the current much lower overall value of a currency that’s lower precisely because it’s been overprinted and the quantity of money in circulation has changed drastically since then. The only way Iraq can “go back” to a what happened 20 years in the past when its currency numbered billions rather than trillions is to take 99.9% of money out of circulation by redenominating (a zero “lop”). That’s why the process exists – to deflate a currency that’s plummeted in value due to prior inflation and disproportionately high amount of money (in absolute terms) in circulation.

   Obsessing about what Iraq used to be 20 years ago without taking into account it’s interim massive overprinting of Dinar’s is like arguing the US will “RV” the US $ by 40:1 because gold was once $40 per oz but is now $1,600 per oz – whilst ignoring the vastly different M3 figures between the decades that have driven up the price of gold by devaluing the $…

   It’s like trying to hold a debate with people who sit there repeating “because the price of bread used to be $0.05 per loaf and now it’s over $1.40, that means there’s 28x secretly hidden wealth in the $ because some $ salesman on a radio call / internet forum said so!” who simply don’t “get it” that what they believe is “a magic undervalued investment” is nothing more than the natural devaluation result of decades worth of high inflation. What they think is the “cure” is actually the symptom! “The Dinar is worth 1,000x more because the Dinar used to be worth more and the RV will happen because of it” is like a doctor saying to a cancer sufferer “You don’t have cancer because you never had it as a child” and “The cure for cancer is baldness because radiotherapy causes hair loss!”

   It’s the M3 figures (total amount of money in circulation) that count the most regarding a currency’s value vs other currencies (just as they universally do with any other country) – something that seems completely lost on amateur Dinar speculators. Just because inflation has fallen doesn’t mean the currency value goes up – it means a fall in the rate at which the value will fall in future. It’s exactly the same as a cut in a budget deficit doesn’t mean a cut in debt – it means a cut in the rate of increase of future debt. There is no magic “RV” mechanism (other than adjusting a hard peg – the Chinese have “RV’d” their currency vs the $ in recent years) – but the Iraqi Dinar no longer has that – it is priced by the market and it’s current value of 1170 is deemed fair given the amount in circulation – including by the same IMF Dinaraholics swear blind will magically give it an absurd decades old pre-inflationary figure out of confused nostalgia. The Dinar is worth only 1170 per $ because there are tens of trillions printed (just like 1920′s Germany) – not in spite of it or because 99.999% of the human race are moron’s incapable of figuring out it’s over-printed worth.

   With tens of trillions of Dinar’s in circulation, the Iraqi Dinar is simply not going to be worth the same as the Kuwaiti Dinar (with just 30 billion in circulation) for the same reason you can’t “RV” the price of Gold back to $22 per oz (when there were only a few hundred billion dollars in circulation) or dictate the price of bread is 5 cents per loaf (when there were just a few billion in circulation) whilst still keeping today’s +$12tn Dollars in circulation. It’s the quantity of money in circulation that’s the key defining value. Supply and demand works exactly the same for currencies & banknotes as it does for goods & services. Unless the M3 figures are exactly the same after 20 years, there is simply no serious comparison between even now and 2005 let alone 1995.

   The Iraqi Dinar M2 chart (number of Dinar’s in circulation) is here…
   http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/iraq/money-and-quasi-money
   The abnormal data prior to 2003 is filled in with a trend line due to both missing data (non-transparency under Saddam) and a fake artificial peg under Saddam that collapsed precisely because it wasn’t worth the self-declared value. Since then there are now over 60 TRILLION units of Dinar in existence (M2/3 figures – the M1 (bank-notes only) is still over 30tn) – and this in a country smaller than Canada. To keep things in perspective, there are only 8.7 trillion Euro’s for a continent with a population of over 450m people…Do the maths per person, and you’ll see the IQD isn’t “undervalued” it’s plain and simply overprinted just like 1920′s Germany…

   Common sense should tell people that given that the entire combined value of the global economy is $60tn (of which Iraq has approx 0.21% of the share of global GDP, ie, approx $127bn), it cannot “revalue” to have 474x more money than it’s own economy and nor can it have the same in circulation as “all the money in all currencies on Earth” because there’d be no money in any currency left to exchange it with (and would be so worthless it’s artificially dictated value would promptly collapse again)!
4. Michael says:

   May 13, 2012 at 9:25 am

   Superb posts Barry (and Stew). Keep ‘em coming. You two should really write blogs of your own.

   The “elephant in the room” as they say is the blatantly obvious meltdown when you extrapolate the desired 1,000x richer from nothing to Iraq’s own economy. They have $127bn economy x1,000 “magic RV” = $127tn. Or basically, Dinar speculators are arguing that Iraq has 2x planet Earth’s worth of economies equal to 2x China’s + 2x USA’s + 2x Europe’s + 2x India’s + 2x Japan’s, etc – all combined…

   Alternatively, given their current share of 0.21% GDP, for that to be worth 1,000x more means they believe “post RV”, planet Earth will have a global economy of $60 quadrillion…

   Either way, it’s absurd and almost child-like in an economic outlook to think money can fall out of nowhere just because a few people want it to…
5. cabio says:

   May 14, 2012 at 5:18 am

   Barry you said “Secondly, currencies aren’t determined by natural resources”

   But above is contra to below report :

   http://www.mop.gov.iq/mop/index.jsp?sid1&id=308&pid=295&lng=en

   Any comment on that report.
6. Barry says:

   May 14, 2012 at 1:11 pm

   “Barry you said “Secondly, currencies aren’t determined by natural resources” But above is contra to below report :”

   caboi – Let me clarify : If a country sells its resources in its own currency, then during the year of sale, it may put a slight natural pressure upward on the currency (called “appreciation”) due to changing the country’s balance of payments / increasing natural demand for that currency. Nationalised oil can also be sold to reduce external debts which may also positively *slightly* improve the country’s balance of payments sheet.

   But a country cannot and does not declare itself 1,000x richer just because it has found but not yet sold some natural resources – simply because you can’t sell the same barrel of oil twice – once when you find it and once again when you actually export it.

   Iraq really is no different to any of the other 115 oil producing countries (some people act like Iraq is the first country to sell oil!), and the Dinar is just as much an unbacked fiat-currency as anyone else’s. Just because Iraq has a nationalised oil company doesn’t mean its currency is backed by oil as if it were on a “liquid gold” standard. It’s fiat value – like all other fiat values – is determined by market supply and demand, and its M2/3 figure (how many units have been created). The more a currency is over-printed, the less each unit is worth due to inflationary wealth dilution. Simply finding oil doesn’t change that – and selling it only changes it mildly – certainly not by a ridiculous hyper-inflation inducing 99,000% overnight that some confused mis-sellers are claiming.

   If you read what Iraq are actually saying (which is often the exact opposite of what moronic pumpers are claiming) they want a stable exchange rate, not a higher one, especially given their intent to become a net exporter. Hint : Why do you think China – a net exporter – wants a weak currency rather than a strong one? Strong currencies benefit net importers more (imports are relatively cheaper). And weak currencies make a country’s exports more nationally competitive vs other countries selling the same product.

   “Iraq want a super-strong currency so they can export more” is actually as completely backward as you can get (like most pumper arguments!):-
   http://greenicebergs.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/chinas-rising-currency-hits-exports-and-manufacturing/

   The last thing Iraq want is to make their own oil industry less competitive, hence their repeated policy of pursuing a stable exchange rate…
7. cabio says:

   May 15, 2012 at 3:57 am

   Barry said “caboi – Let me clarify : If a country sells its resources in its own currency, then during the year of sale, it may put a slight natural pressure upward on the currency (called “appreciation”) due to changing the country’s balance of payments / increasing natural demand for that currency. Nationalised oil can also be sold to reduce external debts which may also positively *slightly* improve the country’s balance of payments sheet.”

   My understanding from your statement, there are resources’ influence to the currency/exchange rate.

   As per thereport/studies :

   * What is meant by exchange rate: the number of units of foreign currency, expressed in dollar per one dinar.

   In particular the following outputs and inputs of foreign currency were distinguished:

   · Export-outputs.
   · Outputs marketed locally that substitute imports.
   · Imported inputs.
   · Inputs produced locally that usually go to exports.
   · Foreign labor.

   You said “If you read what Iraq are actually saying (which is often the exact opposite of what moronic pumpers are claiming) they want a stable exchange rate, not a higher one, especially given their intent to become a net exporter.”

   I Agreed – stable exchange rate so they want to amend the exchange rate in other word ‘Re-value’.

   The report mentioned:

   3. Estimate the amended exchange rate of the Iraqi dinar to be used in technical and economical feasibility studies and for (1.134) dollar per dinar.

   Do you agree – MOP is estimating IQD 1 = USD 1.134 ?
8. Stew says:

   May 15, 2012 at 5:36 am

   Cabio… do you realize how old that MOP article is? It’s about 5 years old I think.
   The other thing is they are refering to a “feasibility study”. Do you have any other details of the the studies? What was the target money supply for the study? What was target GDP for the study?
   You do know they did studies for the redenomination/lop. This very well could be talking about one of those studies. Without more details about the study it means absolutely NOTHING. But of course pumpers used it to drive up sales for years… and banned anyone from their sites who might try to explian that.
9. Stew says:

   May 15, 2012 at 6:14 am

   Cabio… I was just reading that MOP article again. That is even older than I thought. It is pre 2004. It states the official rate is $3.208. The dinar hasn’t had an official rate that high since prior to 2004.
   That’s an old Saddam era document.
10. cabio says:

    May 15, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Barry & Stew,

    The report was released on April 2011.

    ” Justifications for exchange-rate adjustment: there are a number of important and powerful arguments which support the view that the official exchange rate reduces the real value of foreign currency for purposes of calculating the economic national profitability for investment projects and hence for the purposes of investment planning. It is demonstrated in this context to call for assessing the dinar for less than (3.208) dollar (official exchange rate) when assessing project outputs and inputs of traded goods of exports, substitute imports and imports… etc. ”

    3.208 is official exchange rate as per MOP statement for that studies report that released on April 2011. It’s not refer/stated to any actual rate on any particular year as your assumption.

    For redenomination/lop, yes I did know and they just release some news for this and no report from them about this on this moment. Most people just make “Speculation” about this including Barry and you. No report/fact has been shown. So your points also are still speculation. We still don’t know their plan.

    I’m also speculated that there will be RV and then LOP.

    From this MOP study report is clearly stated they need to RV their IQD.
11. Barry says:

    May 15, 2012 at 9:12 am

    “I Agreed – stable exchange rate so they want to amend the exchange rate in other word ‘Re-value’.”

    Cabio – That makes no sense. Stable exchange rate means they don’t want it to amend its international value at all – either upwards or downwards. Iraq have also never used said “revalue” at all. It has always been “redenominate”. You are reading far more into it than is there.

    “Do you agree – MOP is estimating IQD 1 = USD 1.134″

    The claimed “1.134″ isn’t Iraq’s policy – nor is it the official exchange rate (that’s 1170:1 and has been for almost a decade). In fact as Stew said – the link you posted is a Saddam Hussein era document – not just years but possibly decades old! Since then Iraq’s money supply has shot up and is valued by the market at 1170 – not some communist style centrally planned figure / dictatorship. It’s about as relevant (and impossible given Iraq’s 60tn M2 figures) as 1970′s articles on fixing the price of gold at $50 USD per oz… In fact that document appears to relate to the uninflated “Swiss Dinar” (two generations back)! That’s one generation older than Spanish articles on the pre-Euro 1990′s Pesata exchange rate!

    60 Trillion Dinars “valued” at 1.134 = 68 trillion dollars worth of currency. Reality check : Not only is that 535x more money than the size of Iraq’s economy (approx $127bn) – It’s also more money than there is is the world from all +190 countries combined! (ie, the entire global money supply):-
    http://goldseek.com/news/2009/1-12mh/11.png
12. cabio says:

    May 15, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Stew,

    “The other thing is they are refering to a “feasibility study”. Do you have any other details of the the studies? What was the target money supply for the study? What was target GDP for the study?”

    You can go here http://www.mop.gov.iq/mop/index.jsp?sid=1&id=252&pid=1
    and ask them to provide you for your study as well if you want.

    For me the report is cleared to me.
13. Barry says:

    May 15, 2012 at 9:22 am

    cabio – “The report was released on April 2011.”

    Wrong. The parent page for which the article is included as a subset clearly states:-

    “In turn, The Guidance For Technical And Economic Feasibility Studies And Post-Project Assessment Of Development Project (Regulations No. 1 for the Year of 1984 and it’s amendment for the year of 1990) has specifies a series of steps to be undertaken, which lead to the completion of a Capital Budget.”
    http://www.mop.gov.iq/mop/index.jsp?sid=1&id=295&pid=259

    April 2011 is just the date the document was digitized / electronically archived. It was written almost 30 years ago (7 years before the FIRST Gulf War)!…

    “For redenomination/lop, yes I did know and they just release some news for this and no report from them about this on this moment. Most people just make “Speculation” about this including Barry and you. No report/fact has been shown. So your points also are still speculation. We still don’t know their plan”

    There have been dozens of almost monthly official statements and TV appearances on the redenomination. “It’s just speculation” is just denial. We do know their plan – some people just don’t want to accept it.
14. Stew says:

    May 15, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Good find Barry. It was clear reading the entire document that it was a very old doc. The doc states the official exchange rate is $3.208. The official rate was lowered when Saddam was removed from power. It also states this… “This action shows that the official exchange rate overestimates the value of the dinar”.
    So the document is is an old Saddam era document about lowering the exchange rate. Yet dinar pumpers have used it for years to dupe people out of money.
15. Stew says:

    May 15, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    News Flash!
    Dinar Daddy has finally come out and admitted that Iraq is saying they will redenominate and that a redenomination is bad, it is not a RV. A 25k note will become a 25 note. This was explained to him 3 or so years ago and it’s just sinking in… or he’s known all along and just now admitting it.
    He hasn’t come totally clean though. He claims the lower denoms might not get redenominated and they may get the new value. I’m guessing that’s because he sells low denominations for about $2000 per million and he must have plenty in stock to sell.
    Believe me… the redenomination will effect ALL notes. Lower denominations are the ultimate sucker play.
16. Barry says:

    May 15, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    Stew – “Dinar Daddy has finally come out and admitted that Iraq is saying they will redenominate and that a redenomination is bad, it is not a RV. A 25k note will become a 25 note. This was explained to him 3 or so years ago and it’s just sinking in… or he’s known all along and just now admitting it. He hasn’t come totally clean though. He claims the lower denoms might not get redenominated and they may get the new value. I’m guessing that’s because he sells low denominations for about $2000 per million and he must have plenty in stock to sell.”

    LOL. He really is desperate trying to recycle this. I remember the epic-ly funny moment he declared “there will be no new banknotes”, then 24 hours later the Central Bank of Iraq announced : “The new currency will be printed after deleting the zeros and will include the Kurdish language in addition to the Arabic language. It will bear as well photos of Iraq’s civilizations and patrimony in addition to symbols of Iraqi intellectuals and figures”

    Then later : “AKnews reports that the Iraqi Central Bank (ICB) has confirmed it will issue a new bill with a value of 50,000 IQD ($43) but marked [redenominated] as 50 dinars.”
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/11/28/iraqi-central-bank-to-issue-new-notes/

    Then later : “Mahma Khalil, Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of the Economic Committee stated that the new bill will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure the redenomination will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market,” explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000.”

    Stew – “Believe me… the redenomination will effect ALL notes. Lower denominations are the ultimate sucker play.”

    Absolutely true. To give those unaware of the sheer scale of fraudulent rip-off of lower denominations (the “cut” on higher 25k notes is bad enough coming from these conmen):-

    Several Dinar scamsters sites are selling 1m Dinar’s ($854 worth) in smaller denominations for : $1,985 (1,000 x 1,000 Dinar notes), $2,695 (2,000 x 500 Dinar notes), $3,680 (4,000 x 250 Dinar Notes), and a jaw dropping $16,900 for 20,000 x 50 Dinar notes!

    So, you hand over $1,000 and will get back respectively : 503k Dinars ($430 worth) of 1k notes – or – 371k Dinars ($317 worth) of 500 Dinar notes – or – 271k Dinars ($232 worth) of 250 Dinar notes – or 59k Dinars ($50 worth) of 50 Dinar notes!

    Those currency trading spreads are a jaw-dropping 132%, 215%, 331% and 1,900%! (Normal FX cash spreads for tourists & businessmen are under 5-10% whilst pro-Forex trading is in “pips” a “pip” being 1/100 of a cent).

    So after the RD, you’ll still have the same money (because you’ll swap the notes 1:1000 as Iraq have been saying all along) – but then you need to change them back. No problem – “Treasury Vault” to the rescue. They’ll give you $880 per 1m Dinars (a further rip-off 12% cut on top of above spreads) for exchange.

    So your original $1,000 investment turns into : $378 (for all 1,000 denomination notes) / $279 (for all 500 denomination notes) / $238 (for all 250 denomination notes) or $44 (for all 50 denomination notes).

    No wonder the smarter ones who were previously hooked but now see through it are quickly dumping them en masse on EBay to the still remaining “addicts”…
17. Stew says:

    May 16, 2012 at 5:31 am

    About that $880 buy back rate. That will sink fast when everyone finally realizes this is a scam. Dinar Daddy even admitted today that the rate will drop if there is a redenmination and every one suddenly wants to sell back at the same time. He even says “supply and demand”
    I find that hilarious. For years I have tried to explain to these gurus that the dinar was fairly priced where it is and that a redenomination was in the offing buy showing them the money supply numbers and GDP… you know… the basics of supply and demand. They didn’t want to here it. But you just wait. When the redenomination happens and everyone is looking for someone to unload their dinar to… they will suddenly know all about supply and demand.
18. Trevor Tremain says:

    May 18, 2012 at 6:59 am

    Cablo,
    “Stew& Barry any ideas about what happened for the period July 94 to Dec 95″.

    Cablo no reply from either of them.

    Maybe what happened in the period that you mentioned, was the period that the UN sanctions we’re imposed on Iraq, stopping them from exporting the quantities of oil that it was up until then. Then when the currency dipped to as low as it did, then the IMB stepped in and froze the currency to stop it from falling any further, why I ask did they let it get so low before doing so, that’s what I would like to know. I think it was deliberate, as everone knows that the strength of a country is seen by how strong it’s currency is, and yes the IMF is still doing so, and that is the only reason that the Iraqi Dinar is at such a low value.
    I’m sure that my comments will get B&S’s attention, but it doesn’t matter what they say, I will not make any comments to what they say.
19. Barry says:

    May 18, 2012 at 9:28 am

    “Cablo no reply from either of them.”

    You need to look closer before embarrassing yourself further Trevor – Already answered in detail here (almost a week ago):-
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/11/11/iraqi-dinars-one-of-the-most-foolhardy-investments-you-can-make/comment-page-5/#comment-101415

    “why I ask did they let it get so low before doing so, that’s what I would like to know”

    Because that’s the genuine market value of it. Unless you’re a communist dreaming of a centrally planned economy (they don’t work out too well you know), you really do need to accept that the Dinar is already fairly valued and fantazising about 25-year old exchange rates is as totally delusional as fantazising the Dollar will “RV” because it was worth 45x more on the gold standard under Nixon…

    A country with a currency over-printed into the realm of 60 trillion circulation will never, ever, have a value remotely approaching what it used to have when it’s circulation was in the billions. It’s called “inflation” – and that word is something Dinar “investors” desperately need to educate themselves on rather than throw around the stupid “when Iraq prints 1,000x more money it gets 1,000x richer” embarrassment.

    “I’m sure that my comments will get B&S’s attention, but it doesn’t matter what they say, I will not make any comments to what they say.”

    Are you now openly admitting you’re engaging in “hit and run” trolling? I’m not surprised. Pretty much the norm for Dinar pumpers trying to “debate” outside their own censored controlled environment forums…
20. Trevor Tremain says:

    May 18, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Barry Barry Barry,
    For your benefit, I will say it just one last time. I will make no further replies to your or Stews comments, but I didn’t say that I wouldn’t reply to other posts by those who still have an open mind, not a closed minds like you two have got. Even I have said that I will know for sure that I’m right, when it occures, but you two HA HA HA, one eyed twits, you just can’t be wrong can you??????????
21. Michael says:

    May 18, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Trevor, the reason you won’t talk to Barry or Stew is because they’ve outed you as a salesmen with vested interests trying to advertise your scam here – and you’re running scared because every argument you’ve put up has been systematically debunked with truth and facts. All you have left is silly trolling and feel-good delusions of grandeur. Sorry, mate, but you’ve already lost the argument and are convincing no-one.

    “Even I have said that I will know for sure that I’m right, when it occures,”

    You sound more like you’re trying to convince yourself than anything… LOL.

    As pointed out above – the “elephant in the room” for all of this is the way you genuinely believe Iraq will end up with 1.5x planet Earth’s worth of money. Um, right dude. You keep “believing” that. LOL.
22. Barry says:

    May 18, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Trevor – “I will make no further replies to your or Stews comments, but I didn’t say that I wouldn’t reply to other posts by those who still have an open mind, not a closed minds like you two have got.”

    LOL. So you’re that terrified of honest debate with facts that you now openly admit that you’ll only talk to people who fall at your feet in advance. Enough said! (and yet more proof the pumpers have nothing to offer beyond cult of personality self-obsession…)
23. Jack M. says:

    May 18, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Barry – Ignore the trolls – and keep ‘em coming. I guess your above post on Dinar salesmen making rip-off profits from selling lower denoms really rubbed him up the wrong way (given that he’s selling 1m Dinars ($1,170 worth) for $1,380 in 5,000 denominated notes! WOW! A 20% ripoff spread. What a “bargain”!… I’ve been around the world a bit and I would laugh in the face of anyone who tried to take 1/5th of my money in commission fees just for changing a few banknotes up. (The normal average rate is about 3%. But that’s from legitmate licensed Forex travel money dealers who deal with dozens of world currencies and not just “Dinar only” conmen who only popped up last month and target the naive…)

    Interesting though how on his dinar options call page, he even has a section on the redenomination – says it all about trying to “suggest” the RV is coming (without crossing the “we can’t given financial advice” line) whilst also trying to cover his a*s from mis-selling lawsuits later on, when the redenomination occurs

    From Trevor’s site:-

    “Above option contracts are for 1 million of the current 2003 Iraqi Dinars, any zero lop in the currency will see your position adjusted accordingly. If they were to take off 3 zeros for example (REDENOMINATION Not Revaluation), your option position will be adjusted to 1000 Dinars from a million . This is an example. It is very important to note that REDENOMINATION is simple a change of note values the make currency transactions easier, it in now way affects the value of the Dinar, what it is worth before and after redenomination is exactly the same only the physical note values will remain the same.

    A worked example for existing option holders, you hold 1 million in current 2003 New Iraqi Dinars that are quoted at roughly $1 to 1170 Dinars from the daily Central Bank of Iraq auction. (ie 1 Dinar is worth 0.00085 US Dollars currently). If a redenomination and removal of 3 zeros occurs, your position will automatically be adjusted to 1000 NEW Dinars and 1 Dinar will then be worth 0.85 US Dollars ie. 85 cents. So the 1 million Dinars that had a previous value of $854 in Baghdad will still be worth $850 as the equivalent amount will be 1000 New Dinars x 85 cents = $850.”

    About the only honest two paragraphs on the site. Maybe now he won’t talk to me either for my “closed mindedness” of quoting his own redenomination explanation from his own site! All the best Barry!
24. Stew says:

    May 18, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Trevor said… “as everone knows that the strength of a country is seen by how strong it’s currency is”

    Your ignorance of currencies is staggering.
    The Italian Lira traded at 1500:1 for years while Italy was one of the top 5 counttries in the world for economic activity.
    Japan is currently the #3 country in the world for economic activity… they have been about 100:1 for years. (currently 80:1)

    LOL… The Iranian economy is 3 times bigger than Kuwaits economy. Iran is 12000:1 whle Kuwait dinar is worth over $3.
25. Barry says:

    May 18, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Jack – “Barry – Ignore the trolls – and keep ‘em coming. I guess your above post on Dinar salesmen making rip-off profits from selling lower denoms really rubbed him up the wrong way”

    Will do (and I don’t doubt that it did!) LOL. I missed that on his site. Good catch. I was too busy laughing at the “secretive” conspiracy garbage on the “investment page” – “Why didn’t we know! The media wouldn’t tell us! Pass it on!” (referring to half a dozen ordinary things like increased mobile phone usage “so secret” the LA Times, BBC, Economist, etc, have been openly reporting them since the war started)… Typical pumper paranoid conspiracy mindset – take a handful of perfectly normal events, pretend they’re some big censored secret (purely because they’re mentioned more in investment / humanitarian publications rather than more popular tabloids) and then try to “own the secret” as a sales package and develop cult followings out of it.

    The “I have a secret” psychology really is the key to understanding the Dinar phenomenon (and other advance fee fraud scams) – once you debunk the “secrets” (on which the promise of impossible future wealth aspect is based) as the part confusion, part-dishonesty they are, the whole thing crumbles, which is why pumpers get so frantic and emotional (as seen here) when people sit down and explain the whole thing in detail with facts to back it up.

    Trevor (and other pumpers) “argument” is nothing more than an irrelevant obsession with clinging to decades old exchange rates out of confused nostalgia mixed with a total lack of even basic high-school level economics and greed-driven psychological filters. When that fails, all that’s left is personal attacks and fear-based emotional slogans followed by a swift backpedalling retreat (which often includes the attempted “messiah complex” copout (ie, “I’m so smart I no longer need to stay and debate”) to try and make it look like they’re not really running away when they’ve lost the argument))

    Stew – Absolutely well said. It really is that simple people. In fact it’s kind of funny that Iran last year hinted they may redenominate too and it went straight over the Dinaraholics heads:-
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-06/iran-plans-to-slash-four-zeros-from-currency-donya-reports.html

    Where’s the panic rush to buy Rials? Doesn’t exist. Why? Because there are no scammers pumping lies about it…

    …Wait for it though : “Buy $100 of Rial’s from me now and become a millionaire overnight!”
26. chasting says:

    May 19, 2012 at 1:55 am

    Stew, Barry, and others…. Thank you for your honest perspective on this investment because it gives validity to all sides. I really do emphaphize “validity to both sides”. This is not a guaranteed return investment by no means. Itis however, certainly a PERSONAL choice to do so. Its my humble opinion that both sides are probably right in their own rights and opinions but it really makes no sense to keep this “mud flinging hate” going….you all gotta agree with that. Let it be, let it be.
    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be. Peace to all and all we do and believe in. This guys…includes to be open minded and support other views of interest. Let it be, let it be.
    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be. Have a great weekend guys.
27. Trevor Tremain says:

    May 19, 2012 at 7:00 am

    Thank you Chasting, exactly. I made the decision to purchase 4mill Iraqi Dinar, I did not spend my life savings or borrowed money to do so, and I certainly am NOT a dealer in any kind of foreign currency. Also I certainly wouldn’t encourage anyone to purchase Iraqi Dinar if they couldn’t afford to, and were willing to possiblely make a lose on it. Especially your point about using the word investment, because that is what I have done, yes there is no assurety that any kind of investment will achieve what the investor expects, and I am very aware of that possibility happening. See I believe that in this case I will be right, and having an open mind is surely a good way to be in anything that we do.
    Just one little point to all, WHO is shooting down in flames every thing that anyone who comes on here and says, especially if it’s not what BS, and their anti Iraqi Dinar mates agree with. No you all are wrong and we BS and Co are right, no willingness to consider the other sides arguement, NO WAY NOT POSSIBLE, we are the greatest BS there is. I’m not saying they are wrong, they just might be right, I sure hope that they aren’t. Not because of what I will loose, but because of the 1.5mill Iraqi Dinar that I have also given away to friends and family (does that sound like the sort of thing that someone would do if they were dealing corruptly in Iraqi Dinar????????) and that’s on top of the 4mill that I still have, gee the pride is going to get a fair battering if I’m wrong. Oh well, I will just have to take it on the chin. But for a reason that I am not going to disclose here (especially with such closed minded BS artists on here), I don’t think that I will have to take it on the chin, but that is for me to know, and for them to try and work out.
    Cheers
    Chasting
    As for me being a troll HAHAHAHA plonk (by the way that was me laughing my head off).
28. Lz says:

    May 19, 2012 at 7:25 am

    Wow….. After reading all the pro’s and cons and still tossing your money in the trash….. Unbelievable!
    You suckers deserve to get ripped off.
29. Barry says:

    May 19, 2012 at 10:40 am

    chasting – “Stew, Barry, and others…. Thank you for your honest perspective on this investment because it gives validity to all sides. I really do emphaphize “validity to both sides””

    Chasting – I appreciate your perspective, but sadly all too often “let it be” is decidedly one-sided in that it gets used as a “naysayers should shut up because they make me feel uncomfortable” attempted censorship card, whilst quietly cheering on outright lies told by the pumpers. Personally speaking, I post simply to give those interested in facts (and not just feel-good hype) – the actual facts. As seen by Jack, Michael, and a dozen others, etc, on this forum – plenty of people just want the truth from the source – not a “reinterpreted” pack of lies from a group of unlicensed salesmen (some of whom were involved in prior scams, eg, CMKM, for which the CEO was prosecuted for fraud) and unquestioningly recirculated by those wrapped up in it out of desperation.

    “I really do emphaphize “validity to both sides. Its my humble opinion that both sides are probably right in their own rights and opinions”

    This makes no sense. If one side claims Iraq will have a money supply of $60tn (more money than there is on Earth and 500x more than Iraq’s own economy – which would result in massive hyper-inflation), and the other side points out the obvious flaw that Iraq’s economy cannot be bigger than Earth’s total economy any more than an island can be “bigger” than the planet on which it resides, they simply cannot both be right. One genuinely is wrong – it’s just too prideful to admit it. Again, with all due respect, this “all are right” as seen on other forums is just relativistic feel-good appeasement of dishonesty and attempts to bring an end to debate to which you disagree – which often is little more than thinly veiled censorship.

    The whole point of this topic is debate on the Dinar. That’s what debate forums are for. It’s very, very clear on this forum alone that one side is repeatedly trying to end the debate, actively avoiding addressing any fact-based points made whatsoever and is desperately relying on appeals to emotion – whilst the other is quite happy to address any point made by anyone. That in itself speaks volumes as to the integrity of the debaters involved.

    Your own last post to me was this one:-
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/29/iraqi-dinar-revaluation-enthusiasts-are-unaware-of-bernie-madoff%e2%80%99s-fame/comment-page-11/#comment-101483

    …and was little more than a juvenile attack desperate to silence debate to which I politely replied without dragging myself down to the same level of character smearing that you used… Sorry chasting, but I’m afraid you’ve already revealed your true colors in that post to start posturing as the “neutral sage” who “isn’t taking sides”…

    Trevor – “Just one little point to all, WHO is shooting down in flames every thing that anyone who comes on here and says, especially if it’s not what BS, and their anti Iraqi Dinar mates agree with. No you all are wrong and we BS and Co are right, no willingness to consider the other sides arguement”

    You are wrong Trevor. I have considered your arguments but I respect you only when you actually try to debate – that’s precisely why I have replied to the points you make rather than run away from them (as you have done mine). But your maths just don’t add up, you don’t seem to understand the universal effect of monetary supply on a currency’s value or how the Forex market works in general, and everything that has been “shot down” has done so only because it was based on dishonesty / confusion / emotional feel-good appeals that are just the adult Dinar equivalent of “I want a pony”. I have not been “unwilling” to listen to you – I have listened then disagreed with you – and have given honest facts to back up that position. You just don’t like my answers because they do not reinforce your rigid expectations.

    Trevor”I’m not saying they are wrong,”

    Actually, you’ve said that several times often in highly patronising ways. It is not me running away from or trying to shut down the debate – it is you two. Others have noticed that too. If you want a debate, I’m quite happy to debate, but please don’t resort to Dinaraholic Propaganda Argument No 1 : “When you run out of arguments, attack your opponent’s need to post”. It won’t work – and other neutral people here have already seen and called it out as censorship too. If you want to debate, then debate properly, If you don’t then why hang around yourselves? Either way, I’m not going to stop talking to other more neutral people here interested in the truth, just because it takes you two out of your comfort zones. Have a good day.
30. Trevor Tremain says:

    May 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Chasting,
    So much for let it be let it be. See what I mean about these lot here, and they call it debate. It’s not debate when one side thinks that they are totally right all the time, and that isn’t me, I have said that my decision to purchase Iraqi Dinar was a personal one, and have done so believing that I have done so with reasons that I am not willing to disclose with such boneheads like BS and Co. I have even said that I could be wrong, but even that isn’t good enough, I don’t know why, it’s not as though I am expecting them to agree with me. They can’t even understand that others have the right to have a different appinion than they do. Then they wonder why those same people don’t want to discuss the subject with them. It wouldn’t supervise me if you don’t reply, so not to receive any further sarcasum from these one eyed anti Iraqi Dinar dopes. So now both you and I are suppose to somehow be in cohoates with each other, and ganging up on the others. Oh dear, well Cheers Chasting, I going, I can hear the knives being sharpened by BS and Co.
31. Stew says:

    May 19, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    The funny thing is Chasting showed up on this board and wanted to see my post. Stating the he/she could debate me and show me where I’m wrong because he/she knew practically everything there was to know about the dinar. Since then Chasting has read a number of my post, and Barry’s, and Cahsting hasn’t debated one single issue. Chastings response has been that of the typical dinar holder who can’t debate the facts, so he/she tries to shut us up. Credit to Chasting for at least asking us in a polite way to shut up.

    Thanks Chasting… but there are many dinar propaganda sites on the internet run by dinar dealers or scamming gurus where lies rule and facts are not allowed to be talked about.
    This is not one of those site.
32. chasting says:

    May 19, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    Hey Stew. Hope your having a great weekend. I would never tell you or any one to “shut up” because thats what this forum is all about..freedom to speak your mind wether the recipient likes the information or not. I personally am well versed in the pros and cons of this investment, or scam, or risky gamble. The truth is if you really look at the details of this almost every scenario or outcome can be supported. I signed up for this forum because I wanted to see what others were thinking about regarding the cons of this whole thing. I didnt want to be a part of the mud slinging though. I think both sides should continue the debate because its good for everybody. Its education. Free education at that. I just dont see the need to attack folks personally. As I stated earlier in a post, this was a risky investment that I took but I have most certainly moved on to other investments. Keep on trucking Stew….its all good! btw….im of male gender=)
33. Barry says:

    May 20, 2012 at 11:59 am

    chasting – “The truth is if you really look at the details of this almost every scenario or outcome can be supported.”

    Except for the obviously mathematically impossible ones… As mentioned earlier, relativistic “truth is truth and lies are truth so we can all post any nonsense and feel good about it” is pretty devoid of any substance on the Dinar redenomination, as back in the real world, the Forex market is a “zero-sum game” run by maths that has to balance – (ie, when you buy Dinar’s at x rate (1170 Dinars per $), someone else has to sell $ to you at 1/x rate ($0.0008547 per Dinar). And when the Dinar redenominates by 1:1000, you will exchange at same ratio of zero’s lopped, etc) – and not art critics expressing relative emotional opinions which are “right for them”

    The only acceptable answer to the question : “If you have a basket of 1,000 Iraqi apples and you remove 999 Iraqi apples, how many Iraqi apples do you have left in the basket?” is “1″ – not “1,000″. This isn’t really an opinion based “argument” – it’s basic junior high-school maths.

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