Categorized | Banking & Finance, Security

Officials Divided Over Dinar ‘Reset’

Pages: 1 2 3

Officials Divided Over Dinar ‘Reset’

By Omar al-Shaher for Al-Monitor. Any opinions expressed are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Iraq Business News.

Two Iraqi parliamentary committees monitoring fiscal policy in Iraq have held two contradictory positions on the Iraqi currency “reset” project, which would delete three zeros from the currency. There has been much debate about the project’s feasibility and the date of its implementation.

While the parliamentary Economic Committee believes that the deletion of three zeros from the Iraqi currency would strengthen it, the parliamentary Finance Committee fears that this project would open the door to counterfeit operations.

In a statement to Al-Monitor, Mudher Mohammad Saleh, former deputy governor of the Central Bank of Iraq, warned against the consequences of such a step if it is not implemented at the appropriate time.

Abdul Abbas Shayya, a member of the Economic Committee in the Iraqi parliament, told Al-Monitor, “Reforming the management of the Iraqi currency now requires the deletion of three zeros. This has been endorsed by the parliamentary Economy and Investment Committee.”

Shayya, an MP for the State of Law Coalition led by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, added that the Economic Committee “asked the government and the Central Bank to quickly replace the current Iraqi currency with another that is less [in value] by three zeros.”

“The Iraqi currency is weak, and the money supply has amounted to multi-trillions because of the existence of these useless zeros,” he said. “The country will witness a significant increase in oil revenues, financial earnings and high budgets. Thus, we need to print new banknotes, as estimated by the Central Bank.”

Pages: 1 2 3

Share

89 Responses to “Officials Divided Over Dinar ‘Reset’”

  1. Bob says:

    Goateeman, Chapter 7 was just the “legal wrapper” which enabled sanctions to be placed on Iraq. The actual sanctions themselves (within that wrapper) as Barry said – were lifted years before – first of all “oil for food”, then the sale of oil / signing oil contracts, etc. The UN / IMF, etc, hasn’t been holding the Dinar back at all. Its current value is its market value given how overprinted it has become.

    All this proves is that people who hang round “RV” forums who loudly claim to have done “diligent research”, are usually the last ones to find out the truth of what’s actually happening with Iraq because every simple basic legal fact that gets reported on Iraq gets aggressively twisted & manipulated to mean something other than what it actually means, and people lap it up simply because they want to ‘keep the dream alive’ of being a millionaire from sitting on their butt after changing up $1k, rather than deal with reality of how currencies actually work in the real world.

    Some people weirdly think “all currencies should be 1:1 vs the $” regardless of money supply, FX reserves, ignoring the main reason they aren’t in the first place. That’s as stupid as saying “If you took two identical cars, and attached two trailers to them, filled one with a 100kg lead weight, and the other with 100tons (100,000kg) of lead weight, the reason the latter isn’t going anywhere is because it has the wrong tyre tread which just needs its depth “revaluing”, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact the hp/weight ratio is 1,000x lower than the other car…

  2. goateeman says:

    Hey Barry, boy do you have alot of homework to do. Some of the statements you have made on this forum are so far from the truth,for example , this year alone ,Iraqs output to date is being pegged at 3.6 million barrels per day, up 900,000 barrels that you and your buddy John have said that Iraq is currently under OPEC quotas, that prevent them from producing no more than 2.7 mbpd. That stat can be verified through links provided through reports compiled by Bloomberg, and another thing Barry, Iraqs oil production is NOT,NOT,NOT, governed by the strict quotas as set out by OPEC, and it has been that way since 1998,which can also be verified. If you don’t believe me , why don’t you search the internet to find out who Falah Al Amri is and when you do find out who he is, and what position he holds , and that the statements he has made regarding Iraqs oil output, you just might want to reconsider your sources of info regarding the future economic position of Iraq on the world stage, and the value of their currency on world money markets. Iraqs oil production output levels are a sovereign issue so that means , Barry, that when Iraq can, Iraq WILL be producing high single digit mbpd of oil and quite realistically in the next decade reach double digit mbpd output. There are billions of $ of DFI already committed with many more billions in negotiations at this current time. So , no Barry 10mbpd is not a pipe dream, it is a goal that is within that capabilities of this country, once the new drilling operations come online, so the only ones here with a pipe dream is you and John , and you boys may want to put it down. As for following around Dinar speculators like sheep, and buying Dinar from rip-off websites,those statements prove how shallow minded ,and juvenile the statements you have made, really are.So to get back to what has been said in this forum, the subject here was the “scam” being purported on the internet regarding the investing in the Iraqi Dinar, there is no scam, and the Dinar traders out there can charege whatever they feel they can get, same as a car dealer isn’t going to have the same prices for cars as the dealer down the street,or give you the same trade in value.Geez, I didn’t think I was going to have to explain that one to you guys! LOL! A bit of info here to view that may help others out on this forum to see the rhetoric that some have posted here go to “Iraq oil production surpasses Iran” by Steve Hargreaves@Hargreavescnn,again cheers everybody!

  3. goateeman says:

    Just another post here for you boys/girls that was published in this newspaper, give it a read. It was published in july 2013. “Iraqs new $6 trillion energy strategy”It puts to rest the argument of the oil output of Iraq as presented by Barry & John, and further indicates that the Dinar is a solid low risk investment.Cheers everybody!

  4. Barry says:

    goateeman -“Iraqs output to date is being pegged at 3.6 million barrels per day, up 900,000 barrels”

    I do wish you would use paragraphs – it makes it a lot easier to read. First of all, production and exports are two different things. Yes Iraq produces more than 3m, but they do of course use a large chunk of that internally (vehicles, oil power stations, etc) or do you think that falls out of nowhere? (I did say “exports” not “production”). Secondly, yes, OPEC have temporarily excluded Iraq from quotas, because Iraq is still under the 3.8m quota limit they were issued before they invaded Kuwait and there’d be no point is issuing a quota they don’t meet. When their oil increases to 4-5mbps, the exemption will be removed – as Iraq’s oil minister & OPEC have previously said:-

    “The chairman of OPEC has confirmed Iraq’s importance to OPEC and sees negotiations with Iraq re-entering the quota system when Iraq’s production reaches 4-5 million bpd.”

    And as explained to you several times, which constantly seems to fly straight over your head – OIL IS SOLD IN DOLLARS NOT DINAR! What part of that are you having mental difficulty understanding?

    3.6mbps = 1.314bn barrels per year, which = $131bn worth. A chunk of that gets used internally and not exported for foreign currency. Even if you call that $120bn annual oil revenue, it’s still not going to “support” turning a $78bn money supply into a delusional $78,000bn equivalent, even with 500 years worth of oil revenue (which is impossible as it would run dry before even the first 100 years were up given 145bn barrel reserves). As explained to you, most of that revenue gets spent on general govt budget (in place of taxes).

    Even with 10m barrels per day, that’s barely $350bn oil revenue per year (which would last about 40 years before it ran out). How much is $350bn economy per year? It’s about the same sized economy as Thailand or Columbia, and roughly 1/5 of the size of Canada’s which has the same sized 31m population). You amusingly act like that’s some unseen ground-breaking first that’s magically going to “save the world!” LOL :-)

    And you also persistently falsely believe that 100% of oil revenue “backs the Dinar”, which it certainly doesn’t (and cannot). Most of it is spent on Iraq’s govt budget, and the Dinar is a fiat currency no different to anyone else’s that’s backed only by around $70bn CBI FX reserves. How many times this basic simple fact needs explaining to you I simply do not know. You really need to get a grip with what Iraq’s oil revenue actually gets spent on (rather than a factually incorrect personal fantasy of “every drop of oil must back the Dinar because I want free money”). That’s not how it works at all, no matter how much you want it to be.

    All you’re doing is what most confused “RV” addicts do – endlessly confuse Iraq’s oil revenue with their currency valuation, falsely think an increase in GDP must = an increase in currency value, ignore how Iraq’s (and everyone’s) currency is actually valued, try and “pretend away” inflation that’s the primary cause of the weak Dinar value in the first place, and end up getting into a right muddle due to a ferverous blind obsession with oil, oil, oil…

    Bringing in an extra $35bn oil revenue per year won’t support a completely silly 78,000-297,000bn “RV”. This is so self-evident, it boggles the mind that it needs explaining. No matter how much oil Iraq produces, their currency will remain weak (until they redenominate) because they’ve over-printed it – there are 78 trillion units of Dinar floating around – compare Iraq’s 78,000bn to Kuwait’s 30bn KWD, Jordan’s 26bn JOD, Bahrain’s 9.7bn, (who also sell lots of oil as do 100 other countries from Norway to Nigeria) to see the obvious “elephant in the room”…

    Increasing oil revenues WILL however, make oil companies profits and stock prices go up. Have you invested in oil companies operating in Iraq? Have you spent your Dinar on oil-related ISX shares? If so – good for you. Because just having a few Dinar banknotes sitting there not invested in anything won’t gain you anything. It’s not even an “investment” related to oil. LOL.

    goateeman -“So to get back to what has been said in this forum, the subject here was the “scam” being purported on the internet regarding the investing in the Iraqi Dinar”

    Wrong! If you go back and re-read what several people actually wrote on page 1, the scam is surrounding those who sell 1m Dinar then falsely tell people it will “imminently be worth $1m and appreciate 99,000-297,000%” totally divorced from reality. Yes, that is indeed a mis-selling scam, whether you like it or not. All you’ve done (apart from get the core of your argument wrong), is create a giant Red Herring by saying “Because it’s legal to buy Dinar notes, there can’t possibly be people dishonestly mis-selling them”, which is obviously false. There are. And it’s the process of mis-selling them that’s the scam, not the fact you can own Dinar legally.

  5. John Richardson says:

    goateeman -“John have said that Iraq is currently under OPEC quotas, that prevent them from producing no more than 2.7 mbpd”

    I said nothing of the kind. Here’s what I said…

    “Secondly, Iraq sells oil in $ not Dinar so oil has zero impact on the Dinar’s value. Thirdly, the price of oil is set by OPEC of which Iraq is a member. It’s only quota’s that differ between Gulf countries, not oil prices.”

    …Both of which are true. I did NOT say “Iraq’s quota is fixed at 2.7mbpd”, merely that they differ between countries and that Iraq doesn’t make up its own oil price out of nothing. I also didn’t say “production” I said “exports”. Learn to read!

    Secondly, no-one’s said oil won’t improve the quality of life for Iraqi’s inside Iraq, or increase their GDP / economy over time, or that people who invest in the energy sector or buy Dinar expecting it to appreciate say 10-20% over the next 20 years are wrong – we’ve merely said that the twisting and deliberate misrepresentation of Iraq’s proposed currency redenomination (lop 3 zeros) into an utterly ridiculous and mathematically impossible “100,000%-300,000% RV” is false and is a mis-selling scam (and it is for reason already pointed out).

    The only thing you’ve proven is how badly you don’t understand how currencies (including the Dinar work) and how good you are at mis-reading what people write. Currencies are not a “stock” linked to GDP that go up & down according to economic growth (see Vietnam, China, Brazil, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and about 120 other countries where currency can go DOWN as economic growth doubles), they’re a commodity based on the supply (money supply) vs whatever CBI reserves are backing it at desired ratio. It also seems your reading comprehension needs a serious overhaul, as it’s blatantly obvious from page 1 everyone was talking about the absurd “guru’s” and their fake date’s, rate’s & “RV intel” as the scam. Again – all you’ve done is totally misread what everyone has written.

    goateeman -“Just another post here for you boys/girls that was published in this newspaper, give it a read. It was published in july 2013. “Iraqs new $6 trillion energy strategy”It puts to rest the argument of the oil output of Iraq as presented by Barry & John”

    And yet again all you’ve done is falsely put words into people’s mouths. The article talks about oil output by 2030. I certainly didn’t say Iraq’s oil “would still be 3m by 2030″, merely that’s what they’re *exporting* this year (which is not the same as *producing*):-

    “The Minister of Oil Abdul Karim Luaybi said “Iraq’s exports of crude oil reached 2.6 million barrel per day in April (2013).”
    http://www.iraqdirectory.com/en/2013/05/08/23874/iraq-successfully-bolstered-its-oil-export-in-april-2013.aspx

    I guess the Iraqi Minister of Oil is “wrong” too. LOL. :-)

    As I said : “It’s the persistent, deliberate and wilful misrepresentation of its value and Iraq’s proposed redenomination as an absurd 99,000% profit get-rich-quick scheme that’s the scam (a mis-selling scam)”

    If that sentence is too hard for you to understand, well too bad. I can’t dumb it down any more…

  6. Bob says:

    goateeman, it’s obvious you’ve completely got the wrong end of the stick and are not understanding what people are saying. No-one’s saying the Dinar won’t move at all or their economy isn’t growing, it’s the egregious way some conmen have contrived a get-rich-quick mirage targeting people who know nothing whatsoever about currencies or the Forex market other than what they’re spoon feed in “controlled” environments (basically pumper run forums saturated in misinformation, fake “intel” reports and heavy censorship like “DinarVets” (run by “Adam Montana” – whose real name is actually “James Wolf” – see how lie even about that?…)

    Yes that’s a scam – just like (to use John’s example) insurance is legal but mis-selling insurance (“yes of course if your $1k hi-fi blows up we’ll give you $1m compensation!”) is another mis-selling scam too.

    And even if the Dinar does appreciate say 20% over the next 10 years, that’s not a particularly good “investment” (you don’t “invest” in currency you speculate on it) since 20% profit over 15 years (many bought in 2008) = an annual rate of return compound-interest equivalent of around 1.3% which is a pretty poor “investment” by any measure let alone the Forex market (you could get more sticking it into granny’s high-street savings account)…

    Do what you want with the Dinar, but don’t sit there and defend a blatantly obvious sales scam out of confusion. Iraq could pump 10m barrels of oil every single day, and it still wouldn’t make the Dinar go up even 3x, let alone 3,000x – just like Iraq’s +1m barrel oil production increase from 2.3mbpd (2008) to over 3.4mbpd (2013) – a 50% increase – hasn’t made the Dinar go up even 2% in value over the same period…

  7. goateeman says:

    Hey Barry you have stated that there are 78 trillion dinars printed and in circulation. How and where did you come up with that number, as there seems to be no definitive answer as to how much is in circulation, no matter where I search ,including treasury reports directly from Iraq Gov’t sites,and also I have read over the years, as I have been researching info on the Dinar since ’08,that there was a currency swap made by the US,in ’03-04, and that swap was made to pump much needed aid into Iraq for the b etterment of the people of Iraq.Now getting back to the subject of the Dinars value appreciating, its no secret as what has to transpire in order for any appreciation to occur, namely, and not in this order , but collectively is imperative, and they are as follows; there has to be major reforms in the banking system as at the moment there seems to be a lack of transparancy and disclosure from the banking sector,;there has to be investment in their power production as Iraq is still subject to rolling blackouts due to insufficient electricity production, a substantial decrease in imports; investment in non-oil exports with reference especially towards re-establishing their once flourishing agriculture industry, and to reduce the dependence of the gov’t being the primary employer( which is needed as security is still a major concern).Now I know as do many others that Iraq can’t just rely on oil as its source of revenue, it must attract long term foreign investment,and that won’t happen until there is significant change in the business climate domestically, and safeguards are put in place to protect future business investments.With that being said, I personally believe that Iraq is on the right track, and that, with future foreign investment, along with current reparation orders being satisfied,an increase in GDP, the CBI along with assistance from the IMF,to have its currency traded once again on int’l markets, will compel the CBI to refrain from keeping the Dinar falsely de-valued on foreign exhange markets,as is the case today….Again CHEERS everybody!

  8. Barry says:

    goateeman - Hey Barry you have stated that there are 78 trillion dinars printed and in circulation. How and where did you come up with that number, as there seems to be no definitive answer as to how much is in circulation

    It’s in plain sight on the Central Bank of Iraq’s own website and has been updated every single month since 2004:-

    Q1 M2 Money Supply – 78,465bn Dinar
    http://cbi.iq/documents/Monetary_Aggregates_f.xls

    It has also been verified by the Iraqi Parliament, SIGIR, Iraqi Finance Committee, the IMF, in several annual World Bank reports and by most serious non-pumper Forex websites. The answer is quite clear & “definitive” – most Dinar “investors” just don’t want to hear it and have ended up highly confused because of the flat-out lies & mis-information pied-piper pumpers have been throwing around the past few years…

    goateeman -“will compel the CBI to refrain from keeping the Dinar falsely de-valued on foreign exhange markets,as is the case today”

    The Dinar isn’t “falsely devalued” at all. You still don’t understand what you’re talking about despite it being pointed out to you several dozen times and repeating long-debunked pumper-talking points. The Dinar fell in value in the 90’s because Saddam over-printed it absolutely no different to Iran, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Turkey or 1920’s Germany. Just because Saddam is now gone and inflation has since fallen in Iraq doesn’t mean the Dinar’s value will rise – it simply means it won’t fall any more (same way a cut in the budget deficit doesn’t mean the debt will fall – it just means the debt doesn’t rise as fast). A reduction in inflation = a reduction in future money supply growth – it doesn’t cause the past or current inflated money to shrink (that’s deflation – which Iraq doesn’t want as that’ll kill off budding economic growth!)

    The only thing that gets rid of currency devaluation due to past inflation without causing a money shortage, liquidity crisis or economic collapse is a value-neutral redenomination or “lop” – which is exactly what Iraq are planning – and that’s exactly why they’re planning it (and have openly stated so about 30 times in a row since 2009). You can’t “RV” inflation away because an RV is nothing more than an external peg adjustment. It doesn’t take any internal money out of circulation or change any internal prices of non-imported goods at all – which is exactly the root cause of the Dinar being so weak in the first place. The only people vociferously opposing Iraq’s planned redenomination are the salesmen pumping the get-rich-quick “RV” scam.

    FACT: Iraq has created 78,000bn Dinar. This is their total money supply. This is backed by around $65-70bn CBI Foreign Exchanges reserves. 78,000bn divided by $65-70bn = a currency with a real-world market value of between 1110-1200:1. That *is* its fair market value (as the IMF have clearly stated in the past) and is why it’s around 1168:1 in the first place (and actually has a street value of around 1200:1), whether you continue to ignore that or not. It didn’t magically “fall for no reason” (and everyone except you and a few amateur Dinar ‘investor’ friends & guru’s are all supposedly “too stupid” to see it or “forgot about Iraq”). It fell because Iraq printed too much money – which is still in circulation today. It’s as plain and simple as that.

    It’s value cannot be any higher or the Central Bank of Iraq will simply run out of money to back it (causing its value to tank and be treated as a junk currency) – just like if you owned your own micro-business, and you sold 1,000 “GOATEEMAN” gift vouchers and you had $10,000 in the bank, each gift voucher could not have a value of more than $10 or you’d be bankrupt. If you sold 1,000x $10 gift vouchers, then suddenly declared each one to be “redeemable for $10,000 due to a 99,000% gift voucher RV”, but you still had only $10k in the bank, you’d only be able to redeem one single voucher, and you’d end up $9,990,000 in debt! (ie, totally & catastrophically bankrupt)! In reality, 99.9% of people who owned your vouchers wouldn’t even be able to “cash in” at all because your bank account would be empty and you’d close your business and go into hiding after changing up just 1 voucher. The “99,000% RV” argument is exactly the same – and just as absurd and mathematically nonsensical for the same reasons.

    Iraq has between $65-70bn of Foreign currency reserves to back 78,000bn Dinar. That’s why it’s below 1100:1 vs the $ in the first place. If you want to calculate that in Euro’s – Iraq have roughly 78,000bn Dinar and only €49bn-€53bn equivalent CBI reserves to back it. 78,000bn Dinar divided by €49bn-53bn = 1471-1591:€1 (Dinar vs Euro). That’s precisely why the IQD:EUR exchange rate is 1550:€1. In British pounds – 78,000bn Dinar divided by equivalent £42bn-£45bn CBI reserves = 1733-1857:£1 (Dinar:GBP). And that’s also precisely why the IQD:GBP exchange rate is 1818:£1 (IQD:GBP). You could do the same with every currency on Earth and you’d see the same, over and over. The value of the Dinar = its total money supply (78 trillion Dinar – yes they genuinely have created that much money) divided by whatever value reserves the CBI have backing it vs whatever currency you’re comparing it against (ie, dollar value vs exchange rate in $, Euro value vs exchange rate in Euro’s, etc).

    Hope this helps to explain it better. Forex is certainly not the easiest thing to understand, but there genuinely is nothing unique, special or “under-valued” about the Dinar at all at 1100:1-1200:1 given Iraq’s huge “tens of trillions” money supply. Just like Iran’s 12,285:1 IRR, Vietnam’s 21,092 VND or Indonesia’s 10386:1 IDR rates are not undervalued given their staggering quadrillion scale money supply (1 quadrillion = 1,000 trillion or 1,000,000 billion!) That’s why the “RV” ‘explanations’ and ‘promises’ of “1,000x money for nothing!” (not just with the Dinar but also the Dong that was pumped at one point) are all totally bogus, junk economics and maths that do not even begin to add up by 3-4 orders of magnitude! Just because a currency has 3 or 4 zeros after it doesn’t mean it’s “undervalued” if the reason for that is because that country has printed 1,000-10,000x more money, which is why the currency fell 1,000-10,000x in value & has 3-4 extra zeros after it in the first place!

    Have a good day.

  9. John Richardson says:

    Goatee-man: you have stated that there are 78 trillion dinars printed and in circulation. How and where did you come up with that number

    See Barry’s answer (CBI’s own website). If you want a different source:-
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/money-supply-m2

    As you can see above, Iraq’s money supply was 78tn in Q1 2013 – it’s actually increased yet again to 82,343bn-83,126bn latest Q2 2013 figures! Likewise, M0 & M1 have also increased – which instantly destroys the pumper lies that Iraq “has taken most banknotes out of circulation” sales pitch blindly repeated by pumpers, year after year, to gullible followers who lap up anything that sounds nice & promises “free money for nothing”, despite being openly and clearly debunked by the Central Bank of Iraq themselves every single month!

    Barry:The only people vociferously opposing Iraq’s planned redenomination are the salesmen pumping the get-rich-quick “RV” scam.

    Nailed it in one. Iraq have created over 80 trillion Dinar. The population of Iraq is only 30m people. They’ve printed over 2.7m Dinar per Iraqi (and over 700x more Dinar that the $ value of their whole economy including every drop of oil sold)! As has been seen in Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Iran, Germany, etc, when everyone in the country is a “millionaire” in the local currency (despite earning only average $4k annual salary in reality) because the government has printed too much money – and yet the government has only about $70bn of money to back all those tens of trillions of local currency units with internationally, then 1m units of that currency actually ends up being internationally worth a market value of less than $1,000.

    Not undervalued, just basic supply & demand – as all currencies work. People wouldn’t use it for trade if the maths didn’t add up! And no businessman outside of Iraq will trade with Iraq if it will cost him 1,000x more in real-terms to buy all future Dinar tomorrow vs today – the second pretty obvious “elephant in the room” that flat-out debunks the “RV” even more (if that’s even possible).

    The Dinar’s value is not a “secret undervalued windfall waiting to happen”, it’s just the result of years worth of chronic inflation that’s awaiting a simple planned 3-digit redenomination (or “lop” as some call it) to correct, which will not turn $1k into $1m at any point, for anyone. The only reason Iraq has delayed it is because they keep running out of money in the budget to pay for the expense of replacing all the banknotes, tax / audit systems, ATM’s, etc, as they’ve repeatedly said dozens of times over the past few years. 99.999% of people know exactly what “redenomination” means – the only people trying to constantly “interpret” that to mean a “100,000% RV” are those who profit from selling Dinar (or advertising or “VIP RV services”) on the back of a “Buy our over-priced Dinar now and you could be 100,000% richer!” scam, that people otherwise wouldn’t have normally bought if it hadn’t been pumped in the same bogus way.

  10. kev says:

    Yup. And here’s an IMF report saying the same thing:-

    “A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar”
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/

  11. Bob says:

    Some great posts here.

    Goatee-man, if you open the below link (PDF) and scroll down to page 63…

    http://www.cbi.iq/documents/CBI_FOREIGN_EXCHANGE_AUCTIONS.pdf

    … You can clearly see for yourself the difference between “Auction Price” 1166:1 (which is Iraq’s official pegged rate), and “Market Price” 1210-1285:1 (which is the “Street Value” of the Dinar for 2013 – ie, what Iraqi’s think it’s worth and trade as if it were free-floating & unpegged – about 4-10% LOWER than Iraq’s official peg)!

    This pegged vs street value disparity is what the CBI has been struggling to get under control for quite a while now. And it proves beyond a doubt the CBI (or anyone else) isn’t “holding it’s value down with an unfair undervalued peg” (if that were true, Iraq’s street value would be much higher). So if anything the official peg is still slightly over-valued vs its 4% lower traded street value inside Iraq.

    Over 40 other countries are weak with lots of zeros after them from 1st world South Korea & Japan to outer Mongolia. What “RV pumpers” are doing is trying to convince the naive that any currency under 100:1 vs the $ “must be undervalued” whilst simultaneously getting them to ignore every reason *WHY* it has that value in the first place. Not accusing you personally, but that’s why they train their followers to attack anyone who quotes Iraq’s money supply. It’s the one thing that debunks the very core of their “argument”.

    This is also why you see equally stupid pumping for the Vietnamese Dong (which is under 21000:1 because it has a crazy 3.1 Quadrillion Dong money supply!). Funny thing is, many “RV expert” pumpers stopped pumping it a while back after they told people to buy it – and it promptly FELL another 25% in value over the next 18 months. ;-)

  12. Jd says:

    Wow..Can cleary see everyone trying to show how smart they are..In reality NOONE knows whats going to happen with the Dinar and if you do then get ready for the FBI to slap some insider trading on your butt. To say the Dinar is a scam is like saying the dollar is a scam. I dont understand the bickering about it. Currency fluctuates.Truth! So whos to say the Dinar wont be reset or fluctuate over the next 10 years. Yes I do believe its a great way for Companies especially right now to sell currency because those who are less fortunate are in hopes of a good investment. And thats what it is an Investment. So if I spent 1k on some dinar and and every year it gained value say 2-4% a year. I would say after 10 years I made a wise investment. This 2-4 % is common within currency flux. I feel the hopes are on what the Kuwaiti currency did, which was revalue and those people became instant millionaires. So whos to say Iraq cant do the same..Nobody knows!
    So thank you guys for the “hey Im smarter than you are” blogging fight..It was entertaining.

  13. goateeman says:

    Just a couple of quick questions and I am just seeing whats out there for opinions . Is a global currency reset under way in the not to distant future? It appears that most in the financial world are suggesting a return to gold and asset backed currencies with a new form of Bretton Woods type of international agreement, is there a consensus that this may become reality? And before any of you want to start off with , oh heres Goateeman spouting off about more BS from “pumper Dinar sites” I have viewed videos from Bloomberg and they state in those video reports that a return to gold and asset backed currencies is a real possibility, so lets hear what is on peoples minds with regards to these questions. Thanks…. Goateeman

  14. Barry says:

    goateeman“Is a global currency reset under way in the not to distant future? It appears that most in the financial world are suggesting a return to gold and asset backed currencies with a new form of Bretton Woods type of international agreement, is there a consensus that this may become reality?”

    Depends on what you mean by “global reset”. Some form of banking reformation is probably inevitable anyway (eg, reciprocal debt annulment, derivative adjustments, fractional reserve reformation, credit reform, etc) to “reset the system” by wiping away crippling toxic debt. But “global reset” has also in recent years, been hijacked by the same ridiculous Dinar “RV” pumpers who’ve basically twisted “global reset” to mean another absurd get-rick-quick fantasy based on the same delusion that “not just Iraq, but EVERY currency on Earth will “RV” and be on par with the $” (whilst ignoring every reason why it isn’t, why it fell in the first place or why it’s mathematically impossible to “RV” even one let alone all!)

    A “global reset” the way some Dinar “RV” pumpers are pumping is even more absurd as instead of “just” a 99,000%-297,000% “RV” just for Iraq, countries like Indonesia (whose 11,040:1 weak currency is a result of printing a staggering 3.4 quadrillion Rupiah) is “magically going to be 1:1 vs the $” without redenominating by “RV-ing” a mythical 1000000%. Given the global economy is about $80tn, Indonesia’s “global reset” would require 42.6x planet Earth’s global economies to fund. Just for Indonesia. Excluding the other 189x countries on Earth. And that “RV’d, resetted” $3.4 quadrillion or “resetted” Iraqi Dinar’s $80tn is somehow going to be “backed” by $1.6tn of gold reserves (diluted amongst every currency)…

    There was a clueless “RV pumper” guy on here a while ago (“4aprofit”) pumping “the Dinar RV must be true because of the ‘global reset’, and everyone on Earth will be given $10bn because my secret agent friend said so!” as a result of hanging round the most absurd conspiracy forums all day long that regularly conflate the Dinar RV with 101 other conspiracies. In fact, he was the same guy who claimed “Obama has been in jail since Dec 5th 2012″ (whilst Obama was giving a speech on live TV, LOL), and “it must be true” because a stranger told him on the net. :-)

    Reality check : $10bn x 7.4 billion people = $74 quintillion dollars – the equivalent of 985,000x planet Earth’s sized global economies!

    And apparently, due to a “global reset” (the way some are pumping it), there will be no economies or trade anymore because every country has “discovered” the “secret” of “resetting their wealth” by “printing themselves rich” and no-one on Earth will ever have to work again (including doctors, nurses, firefighters, ambulance crews, power station operators, telecoms engineers, farmers, teachers, people who keep ISP’s & satellites running, mailmen, retailers, truckers who deliver food from farmers & factories to supermarkets, airline pilots, refuse collection & highway maintenance staff, water supply & sewage treatment staff, etc”, because “everyone, everywhere will retire a billionaire!” (see the obvious common sense problem with that?)

    Gosh, why didn’t anyone think of “printing themselves rich” before! (actually, some did – ask Zimbabwe!) A lot of this stuff was stolen by RV pumpers from similar previous “NESARA” (Google “NESARA $10m” and you’ll see what I mean) which sprung up as another “$10m for everyone on Earth” get-rich-quick scheme back in the 1990’s, but has simply had the “promise of vast wealth” parts rewritten & reinvented to suit the Dinar sales pitch.

    Or better yet, read below link to see where most “global reset and free millions for everyone” stuff originated from:-
    http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?t=7905

    As for “gold-backing”, much of that is a call for an end to QE and pegging currencies to slow down debasement. But unless there’s massive debt annulment followed by mass redenominations and price deflation that knocks the whole world back to the 1920’s, there simply isn’t enough gold on Earth.

    And calls for gold backing still has nothing to do with any “RV”. In fact, if you took all the gold reserves on Earth (over 35,000 tonnes worth) – at current $45,150/kg ($1,400/oz) gold spot price, that works out to $1.6 trillion, it would take 50-150x planet Earth’s worth of gold just to support Iraq’s mythical $80n “reset/RV”, let alone a global one. Even if you took ALL gold (including every piece of jewelry, electronics, dentistry, aerospace, lost Mayan treasure, etc, ever mined), that still makes barely $8tn. This is why we went off the gold standard in the first place – gold standards really don’t work when the population of the world exceeds 7bn people and it becomes obvious its rarity (which gives it value) also makes it useless for 1:1 global currency backing or liquidity of trade of a multi-trillion economy.

    There may well be some positive global banking reformation, and tighter control of money supply / currency debasement, but a “reset” in the pumper sense of “the Dinar will leap up 100,000% in value, the Indonesian Rupiah will leap up 1000000%, and gold will support it all”, etc, is just the rantings of mentally confused pumpers stuck falsely thinking “every currency must all have the same value” whilst ignoring every main reason why they don’t, and trying to find new excuses as to why the “RV” hasn’t happened after 10 years post invasion. (And they obviously still can’t even add up to junior grade maths level)!

    Hope this explains the background of it a bit better. Have a good day!

  15. John Richardson says:

    goateeman: “Just a couple of quick questions and I am just seeing whats out there for opinions . Is a global currency reset under way in the not to distant future?”

    Nothing wrong with genuinely seeking opinions, goateeman. The problem with the “global reset” thing as Barry mentioned is the deliberate pumper “obfuscation through confusion”, mixed in with 20-year old conspiracies that get rewritten week by week to suit whatever their “target audience” is most likely to believe given news / politics / conspiracies of the week. That’s why searching for it will net you 20 different “versions”. Basically, some have taken an entirely valid concept (potential future global banking reformation of debt/credit creation) and just tried to mix it in with the “RV” to stop some followers from “losing faith” when the pumpers excuses start to wear thin.

    There’s a realistic “reset” in the sense of a possible “shadow banking reciprocal debt annulment”, ie, say country A has a real economy of say $100bn but has created $1tn of highly leveraged speculative instruments owed to country B which also has a real economy of $100bn but has also created $1tn of derivatives owed to country A. Instead of both continue to drowning in debt trying to inflate their way out of debt, they may both just decide to annul most of the $2tn debt on the grounds of much being fraudulently valued and over-leveraged in the first place. This would instantly lift the strain and “credit crunch” on the banks. Everyone wins – except the financial service industry who play around with “off books” derivatives – but it won’t cause currencies to shoot up in value.

    But then there’s a totally unrealistic “reset” as Barry described where pumpers “explain” that “everyone is going to RV – that’s what a reset ‘really’ means” which isn’t even economically / mathematically possible let alone likely, using the same debunked bogus junk maths as the “RV” (“every currency ‘must’ be 1:1 vs the $ regardless of why it isn’t” (a totally false premise right up there with saying “every product ‘must’ be sold for $1 including bread, iPod’s and Porsche’s” then calling people who point out Porsche’s cost a lot more to make than a loaf of bread “naysayers” who “just need to have faith!”). You simply can’t “print yourself 1,000x richer by selling yourself 1,000x more of your own money than you actually have” as ‘RV’ pumpers keep stupidly pushing (both for Iraq as an “RV” and the world as a whole as a “RV reset”).

    All they’re doing is endlessly confusing the “cure” with the symptom. Currencies like the Iraqi Dinar, Indonesian Rupiah, Iranian Rial, Vietnamese Dong, etc, all fell due to inflation – Vietnam had massive 700% year-on-year inflation – that’s why it fell. It’s not “undervalued” and any “reset” of the banks will not fix that unless it includes some 4-zero lop that brings 21145:1 down to 2.145:1 by reducing Vietnam’s absurd 3.5 quadrillion Dong money supply down to 350bn Dong. But you won’t get even $1 richer from that no matter how many Dong you hold. Same with a 4-digit “reset” lop on Iran’s & Indonesia’s currency. Same with a 3-digit “reset” lop on the Iraqi Dinar, Ugandan Shilling, Cambodian Riel, Belarusian Ruble, Columbian Peso, etc.

    All these people do is play on the “sense of expectancy of change” to pump their scam. A lot of people feel “something is going to happen”. “You can FEEL it in the air!”. Heck – I’ll be honest and say I feel the banking system will change to some degree too over the next 10 years. It’s possible “something” will happen in the sense of limit central banks ability to inflate to infinity by pegging credit creation to tangible assets, but that “something” is not going to be the “get-rich-quick” thing that the RV pumpers are pumping their hearts out on – either the “$1m for $1k of Dinar” of the “RV” or “$10m-$10bn for everyone on Earth as a ‘magic gift’ that ‘falls out of nowhere'” of a “global reset” (the way RV pumpers have been pumping it and trying to “mix it in” with the Dinar).

  16. Bob says:

    Goateeman – There’s an old saying : “The best lie is a half-truth”. As other have said – there are two main “versions” of the “global reset” – 1. The original derived from NESARA and was about “gifting prosperity packages” of ridiculous sums of money, etc, and 2. The “new” one was recently invented by Dinar pumpers as a confused mish-mash of the original & RV pumping – after losing ‘RV’ followers when people began to wake up and see the obvious. The justifications for change are real (banks created more over-leveraged debt than assets, credit crisis, etc), but the underlying postulation of “…therefore the solution is everyone declare themselves 1,000x richer or will be given $10m!” is blatantly false.

    Example of junk “global reset” pumping:-

    “So, how does the global currency reset work? Some nations won’t see much change. Some will see an increase in the value of their currency, and a few will experience quantum increases. The coming revaluation of the VND is a classic example”

    http://dinaresgurus.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/how-does-global-currency-reset-work-13.html

    This is complete garbage based on “version 2″ above. First of all there is no Vietnamese “RV”. Or Iraqi “RV” (Iraq are planning to redenominate). Since pumpers started pumping it – the Dong has FALLEN by 20% (which combined with rip-off 20-30% pumper fees means people who bought into the Dong RV hype have now lost HALF their investment!) Vietnam doesn’t want a super-strong currency because their primary competitor for export trade is China, and they’ll just price themselves out of the Asian manufacturing export industry if they suddenly decided the West should pay 21,000x more for the same goods China continues to churn out for 20,000x less! Common sense!

    Secondly, Vietnam has a money supply of 3.5 QUADRILLION Dong. That’s precisely WHY it has an exchange rate of 21,146:1 vs the $ i the first place! If it “reset” (there’s actually nothing to “reset” to – but let’s pretend it will become 1:1 vs the $ without “lopping”), that would result in a completely silly $3.5 QUADRILLION money supply just for Vietnam which is 44x more than the size of the whole global economy (and 10,937x more money than the size of Vietnam’s $320bn economy! That isn’t ‘resetted wealth’ it’s the classical definition of hyper-inflation! Back in the real world, most sane people who haven’t bought into the scam know full well the reason the Dong is so weak is because Vietnam experienced whopping +750% annual inflation (long after the Vietnam war ended). It didn’t “unfairly fall for no reason” – it fell for the same reason the Zimbabwe Dollar, and 1920’s German Mark did – hyper-inflation. Some people like the catastrophically ignorant & brainless “Eagle1″ in above link, just cannot handle the very simple truth of that.

    Stuff like the Bloomberg articles like “Arizona lawmakers back gold, silver as currency” is about creating a new theoretical currency to put pressure on central banks to stop inflating (not a bad idea in a way), not about backing every existing $ (because there simply isn’t enough gold to back it, and “paper gold” is still an issue of deflating gold prices). But both “resets” as pumped above are fake, and often try and “tag” themselves to the back of genuine proposed reformation by copying terminology like “Bretton Woods agreement” & “Basel III compliance” to try and sound as if they know what they’re talking about.

    The total global economy is about $80tn – as Barry said, that’s the dollar value of every product & service sold in every country & currency combined. If all countries “reset” in the pumper-scam sense, and magically declared their currency 21,000x more valuable without “lopping”, there would basically be several thousand times more money on planet Earth than there are goods / services made on planet Earth to use that money to buy things with! So the question is – what would everyone spend the rest of that 99.95% of money on given just 0.05% of it buys every product & service made on Earth?… In reality, it wouldn’t rise against the $ at all. For the same reason you can’t pour a bathtub full of water into a thimble and expect it to “compress down by a factor of 10,000x without spilling a drop”.

    As others have mentioned, all the pumper morons are doing is trying to convince everyone that every currency ‘should’ have exactly the same value, or that any currency with more than 2 zeroes after it is “undervalued”, whilst ignoring every single reason WHY it isn’t undervalued at all in reality. There’ll probably be some bank reform, but the “reset” as pumped above is absolute junk and based on the same chronic economic illiteracy and maths 3 or 4 orders of magnitude out of whack with reality as the “RV” is in general.

  17. kev says:

    LOL. There are other versions of the “prosperity packages / global reset” too:-

    – Heard of “Benjamin Fulford”? The failed Canadian “journalist” conspiracy whack-job who moved to Japan and now claims to have “6 million ninja’s of the White Dragon society” under his command? Who gave the Queen of England “weeks to resign or “he’ll send in his ninja’s to arrest her” (back in 2009, LOL)! The one who rants about every video clip containing MPEG digital compression artefacts as being “proof of shapeshifting reptilian space aliens”? He had “globally resetting, prosperity funds” too. :-)

    – And do you remember “The REAL President of the USA” Tim Turner (the guy who wrote the letters to the Governors giving them 30 days to resign or “they’ll be arrested by Provost Marshalls” as part of TRAP (The Restore America Plan) later renamed “RUSA” (Republic for the United States of America)? He claimed he had “3.5m tons of gold for the global reset” (that’s 21x more gold than has ever been mined on Earth) (and yet still begged for donations just to keep a $100 website up and running). He also used to write “For entertainment purposes only” disclaimers (exact same wording as found on Dinar pumpers sites) on their tax avoidance “lectures”?

    Remember him? Well, he was another one pumping the “global reset / prosperity packages” thing and how he had “millions of tons of gold”. And now he’s just been jailed for fraud for 18 years:-

    “The Justice Department, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the FBI announced today that James Timothy Turner, also known as Tim Turner, was sentenced to serve 18 years in federal prison for conspiracy to defraud the United States, attempting to pay taxes with fictitious financial instruments, attempting to obstruct and impede the IRS, failing to file a 2009 federal income tax return and falsely testifying under oath in a bankruptcy proceeding”.
    http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2013/July/13-tax-872.html

    Some people haven’t just lost money following their “global reset / prosperity fund” clowns advice – they’ve literally lost their house, marriage, etc, even some suicides, after being repeatedly told to “stop paying your mortgage and max out your credit cards because prosperity funds will zero all your debts, Soon! Imminent! Next week!, etc”, which like Dinar pumping gets repeated every week from as far back as 1995!

    All people are doing is trawling the web, piling every “free money for nothing” conspiracy they find into one giant unholy mess and spend so much time wrapped up in conspiracy theories that they develop an addiction to them, and the only reason they’re personally confused is because they’ve long lost their sense of discernment of fact vs fiction by instinctively kneejerk-declaring any produced facts to be “a cover for the real truth” no matter what the subject is about… A bit like “If you agree with me, that’s proof I’m right, but if you disagree, you must be ‘working for the man’ which is double-proof I’m right!”. Some people are so badly “lost” in their inner conspiracy world that they’ve become literally incapable of functioning in the real one.

    Not saying there won’t be some positive banking changes with debt relief, etc – but almost everything related to “prosperity funds, someone will give you $1bn for nothing in a big global reset”, etc, is 100% BS by deluded whack-jobs who have a 100% track record of getting every prediction they’ve ever made, as wrong as they possibly could…

  18. Barry says:

    Re: John & Bob. Indeed. As for “resetting” every country, pumpers are basically claiming “Iraq should have $80,000bn money supply but only a $120bn economy, Vietnam should have $3,500,000bn money supply but only a $350bn economy”, etc, ultimately resulting in “Planet Earth should have a global $100,000tn money supply but only a $80tn global economy”, whilst every unit of every inflated currency is supposed to be “priceless” – claims so stupid & back-to-front they debunk themselves without further comment.

    Re: kev. I completely forgot about those! Well there’s at least 4 versions of the “global reset” then : 1. The NESARA crackpots, 2. the Ben Fulford “ninja” super-crackpot (some say he’s actually been diagnosed with Schizophrenia), 3. “President” Tim Turner (now in jail), and 4. The Dinar RV pumpers with obvious vested interests in finding any excuse to “keep the faith amongst the flock”…

    – In fact the original NESARA “global reset” conspiracy (aside from “arresting George Bush”, “zeroing your credit cards”, etc, all of which was supposed to happen in 2001…), claimed to have a ludicrous “40 zeroes worth of gold” to “fund prosperity packages”. How much is that? At $45,500 per kg ($1,400/oz gold price), and with a 1kg ingot of gold typically measuring 80mm x 40mm x 18mm, that works out to a cube of gold with each face measuring 36,996,315km (ie, 37million km x 37million km x 37million km)! To keep things in perspective, the distance between the Earth and the moon is only 363,295km (perigree) to 405,503 km (apogee)! Or in other words, some people pushing the “prosperity package” scam, genuinely believe that a cube of gold the size of the inner solar system stretching from the planet Venus to planet Earth (and 100x larger than the distance from the Earth to the moon on every face), is “hidden in a few warehouses on Earth”… :-) ;-)

    And even if that were possible, such a vast quantity of gold would mean it would no longer be a precious metal through sheer supply & demand! In fact, if there were enough gold to back giving everyone $10bn on Earth, gold’s value would plummet due to no longer being rare (there’d be more gold grammes than grains of sand on the beach AND drops of water in the oceans), and end up worth many times LESS than most “base metals” (zinc, copper, aluminum, etc). See how most of this gibberish openly debunks itself?

    The “glue” which holds this stuff together is basically some people are so financially desperate, they will literally believe ANYTHING – including the impossible if it promises them “free money”. “Version 1″ (as Bob puts it) is junk because it believe there will be over 900,000x more money than the whole global economy, and version 2 only slightly less junk because it believes there will “only” be 1,000-10,000x more money than the whole global economy.
    .

    At the end of the day, If you have $10 and your overseas friend has €7.50 (same value at current $1 = €0.75 rate) that you use your $10 to exchange it for – your friend is not going to give you €7,500 for your $10 anymore than you’d give him $10,000 for his €7.50. Neither of you has $10,000 or €7,500, and you both definitely do not have $10,000 + €7,500 = $20,000 / €15,000 of combined “RV’d” wealth or will have your $10 / €7.50 each “backed” by 7x $1400 1oz Krugerrands. It’s still just $20 / €15 worth between you whether it’s backed by gold or not.

    Likewise, gold will not make overprinted 3rd world currencies increase in value because they’re still overprinted. The Dinar is 1164:1 vs the $ – but it’s also 1164x less vs gold – it takes $1400 to buy 1oz of gold, but 1.63m Dinar to buy the same 1oz. The issue isn’t the Dinar’s value vs the $ – it’s the Dinar is so overprinted it’s 1,000x weak vs everything including gold even if the Dinar weren’t pegged to the $! Only a lop can fix that.

    Whether the Dinar or Dollar or Yuan or Euro is backed by gold or not, currencies are not going to have the same price in gold until they have the same money supplies (by first being lopped). There isn’t enough gold on Earth to back the Dinar at anything remotely approaching parity with the $ even on a 100% full gold standard. In fact, Iraq’s gold reserves are about 31 tonnes, ie, worth around $1.5bn which doesn’t even back 2% of Iraq’s money supply today even at 1164:1 rate, let alone 0.001875% of a stupid $80,000bn “RV” or “reset” (which is just Dinar pumper speak for “100,000% RV for everyone”, a claim so stupid they should genuinely be tested for some form of psychological Disassociative Disorder).

  19. John Richardson says:

    JD - “In reality NOONE knows whats going to happen with the Dinar”

    Mindless long-worn out denialist pumper slogan. I don’t “know” what the car that passed my window at 30mph will do next – speed up to 40mph or slow down to 20mph. I do know for an absolute fact it will not accelerate to 30,000-90,000mph because that’s a literal objective impossibility, no matter how much you try and extrapolate “appeals-to-ignorance” to stupid extremes such as “no-one will know the Dinar won’t appreciate 300,000%” or “the car engine’s torque might be 99.999% secretly undervalued!”! Yes we do know the Dinar will not shoot up 300,000% – because aside from needing 3x more money than there is on Earth in every currency in every country combined (and assuming 3x planet Earth’s worht of people all donate every $, €, £, etc they have to the CBI including their pensions, mortgage payment, grocery money, etc, it would also result in the complete catastrophic destruction of Iraq’s export economy when it suddenly costs non-Iraqi’s $30,000 to import the same $10 product they could import yesterday for $10 because every Dinar bought in future transactions for ordinary trade ends up 3,000x more expensive to buy for trade than today. No-one anywhere would buy anything from Iraq ever again, and it would turn into a junk currency overnight! ROFL! :-)

    JD - “To say the Dinar is a scam is like saying the dollar is a scam”

    Another mindless pumper lapdog false-analogy. No-one said the “the ability to buy any Dinar” was a scam we’re saying the deliberate mis-selling of the Dinar on the back of an impossible “RV” is a scam. And it is. Just like buying insurance is not a scam but insurance fraud is. Just like buying penny stocks aren’t a scam but “pump-and-dump” mis-selling is. If you’ve bought Dinar to tangibly invest in actual Iraqi businesses, you haven’t been scammed. But if you bought Dinar thinking changing $1,000 to IQD then back again will “make you a millionaire” by keeping it in your sock drawer, then you certainly have been had! As usual, this flies straight over some people’s heads.

    JD - “I dont understand the bickering about it.”

    This is a debate forum for debating. I know that’s a “new” concept to some who are used to tightly controlled, heavily censored pumper forums, where any “dissidence” gets quickly censored, all the intelligent posts debunking obvious fake claims vanish 5mins after posting, and people get banned en-masse for “daring” to post the web-site owners real details (“Adam Montana” = James Wolf, etc), but this isn’t a pumper forum filled with pumper BS. A lot of people who live in pumperland (DinarVets, DinarRecaps, etc) are also often “shocked” when they step outside “the bubble of censorship” and find ‘bickering’ (ie, perfectly normal uncensored debate) they’ll never get to see in their usual controlled websites… But then what does that tell you about “comfort blanket” censorship on “RV” websites?. That’s why pumpers train their lapdogs to regurgitate “NO ONE CAN POSSIBLY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN” when they run out of arguments. It’s basically a call for followers to shut down all common sense & critical thinking skills in preference of some cult-like “faith” in some “personalities” ‘dream’.

    JD - “And thats what it is an Investment.”

    You don’t “invest” in currency, you speculate on it. Anyone who says “I’ve invested in banknotes!” usually hasn’t a clue about either investing or currencies at all. Like those who claim to be in the military and talk about their “gun” (it’s not a “gun” – it’s a “rifle”). It’s one of those dead give-aways that marks someone out as being as green as green can be (in the “know-it-all newbie” sense).

    JD - “I feel the hopes are on what the Kuwaiti currency did, which was revalue”

    ROFL!!!! Kuwait didn’t “revalue” at all. Click on the below link for a chart of the Kuwaiti Dinar vs the $ from 1986 onwards (ie, throughout the Gulf War when they were supposed to have “revalued” after Iraq’s invasion during 91-92. Despite the pumper lies spoon-fed to you, nothing happened. There was no mythical “RV” at all – it’s a made up rumor that exists only in the heads of pumpers and their gullible devout flocks who lap up anything without bothering to check the facts themselves:-

    Kuwaiti Dinar vs US Dollar Historical Chart:-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KWD_against_USD.PNG

    All that happened in reality was when Saddam invaded Kuwait, there was a temporary internal spike inside Kuwait on the black market rate only. A few people panicked and were willing to pay over the odds. Most Kuwaiti’s held onto their currency whose value returned to normal when Saddam was kicked out and new series Kuwaiti Dinar were issued. But the international value of the KWD vs USD exchange rate DIDN’T CHANGE AT ALL – nor did Kuwait “revalue” anything! Had you bought $1,000 worth of KWD’s in 1986 (pre-war), they would still have been worth $1,000 in 1991 (during-war), and $1,000 in 2006 (15 years post-war)! The Kuwaiti Dinar hasn’t fluctuated vs the USD internationally by any more than 14% in over 30 years! It’s like saying “Due to a water shortage, some people were panic-buying bottled water for $10 instead of $1, therefore Obama must have revalued the Dollar 1,000%!”). The “Kuwaiti RV” is complete non-existent gibberish.

    If the imaginary non-existent “Kuwait RV’d because pumpers told me so and I believed them” is the basis for your “investment”, then you’ve been had big-time, and need to start doing your own research. And I mean serious grown-up research well away from junk pumper ‘rumor’ forums like DV, Recaps, etc, filled with peer-ego stroking of financial illiterates telling each other what they want to hear, with childish “my friend’s a secret agent and he said…” made-up fantasies…

  20. Barry says:

    JD - “I feel the hopes are on what the Kuwaiti currency did, which was revalue”

    OMG. Another one. There was no “Kuwaiti RV”. At all. That’s openly debunked even on the Central Bank of Kuwait’s own website:-

    Average Exchange Rate of Kuwait Dinar Against U.S. Dollar (Fils):-

    1986 – 290.53

    1990 – 291.24
    1991 – 289.19
    1992 – 293.30
    1993 – 301.32
    1994 – 297.62
    1995 – 298.46

    2013 – 284.69 (Today’s value)

    Timeline:-

    – Iraq invaded Kuwait on Aug 2nd 1990 and tried to replace “Series 3″ Kuwaiti Dinar with Iraqi Dinar.
    – Kuwait was liberated by the end of Feb 1991.
    – Kuwait issued new post-war “Series 4″ banknotes on March 31st 2001, and completely demonetized “Series 3″ banknotes by Sept 30th 1991.
    – Kuwait later replaced post-war “Series 4″ banknotes with more modern “Series 5″ banknotes on April 3rd 1994 (due to better security features), and demonetized “Series 4″ banknotes on Feb 16th 1995. Series 5 notes are still in use today.

    At no-point did any “Kuwaiti RV” take place despite two lots of banknotes changes. The KWD did not fluctuate internationally in value by more than about 4% from Series 3 notes in pre-war 1990 to Series 5 notes in 1995. In fact, today’s 2013 Kuwaiti Dinar vs USD is barely 2.1% higher than 1986’s value! The “Kuwait RV’d” is a total fantasy fabricated by mentally confused / chronically dishonest & financially illiterate pumpers who’ve been selling you a false “dream”, and telling you a pack of lies all along.

    In fact, John’s “water shortage” analogy was so perfect, I’m going to requote it here:-

    It’s like saying “Due to a water shortage, some people were panic-buying bottled water for $10 instead of $1, therefore Obama must have revalued the Dollar 1,000%!”). The “Kuwaiti RV” is complete non-existent gibberish.

    People here aren’t bashing the “RV” out of subjective differences of opinion, we’re bashing it because it is objectively flat-out wrong and based on the most absurd easily debunked factually-proven-wrong blatant lies about Iraq, Kuwait and the Dinar’s history in general…

  21. goateeman says:

    Good morning Lads, first of all I would like to take this time to say thanks to Barry, John, Bob, for pointing out the way to interpret the financial charts of both the CBI and the IMF. For the last few years I stayed on the sidelines going from financial site to financial site, looking at charts, reading input from various world publications, researching different histories on other currencies that experienced major de-valuation as a result of war or sanctions etc, and through this “journey” it appeared that maybe I was on to something here that could pay off handsomly in the future. Well, due to my perserverence I landed in this forum, and received the information that I was searching for, albeit how hard it was to put aside all that I thought I knew about the Dinar topic, which the info I gathered was true to some extent, with respect to the future prosperity of Iraq, oil,natural gas,gold, fresh water reserves, minerals etc,pushed me to believe that ” hey this looks pretty friggin good” and now I see it was the opposite ,as the numbers quite clearly point out.So here comes the hard part, anybody know what spices work best on the crow I am about to eat , LOL, as Barry, John, and Bob were the 3 that piped up the most, THANKS, you gave me an education in how to decipher the CBI, IMF charts , that yes I was mis- interpreting. I have made a good living flipping houses here in Canada, and decided in ’08 to pick up the Dinar and hold it, to see what happens, approx $1200.00 CDN, at least I still had it, the tv I bought in ’08 for $2000, flew the coup this spring, and it’s history.Well anyways lads, I cashed out, and will look to other areas to play with the money I just got back, I am looking at putting it into silver, any Ideas as to how this will perform in the future? And what is the truth behind investing in the ISX, as I do believe there is money to be made in the “new Iraq” I would just like some insight as to where? Thanks for the enlightening conversations and feedback, ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES LADS and again THANK YOU……GOATEEMAN!.

  22. Barry says:

    Hi goateeman, no problem at all. Nothing to feel embarrassed about (and not mocking you at all for investigating this for yourself) as there’s a lot of silver-tongued salesmen out there who would have people selling their grandmothers if they could! :-) They use some very persuasive and insidious propaganda – as you pointed out (and as Bob said above) – “the best lie is a half-truth”. The way they endlessly talk about “RV” in the same sentence as giving out a genuine but irrelevant fact, eg, “Jordan to invest $2bn, RV soon!” is little different to the way certain parts of the US media kept mentioning “Saddam Hussein” and “9/11 attacks” in the same sentence in 2002 in the run-up to the war, which at one point resulted in a poll showing “34% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11″ (CBS News/New York Times poll)!

    There’s a heck of a lot of emotional manipulation on Dinar “RV” boards, mostly keeping people whipped up into a seriously unhealthy psychological state of constant euphoria which to some ends up as an “expectation addiction”. A lot of anger & rage too whenever someone points out the facts.

    As for alternative investments, if you’ve been good at “flipping” houses, and you know what you’re doing, certainly keep on doing that. Property investments have been slammed in recent years (mostly through a bubble, iffy mortgages and bank over-leveraging), but the long-view is that land is one thing that cannot grow in supply, everyone still needs somewhere to live, and the human population keeps growing in general, and if you have previous knowledge / experience in that area, then by all means play to your strengths.

    Personally, I am into precious metals & Forex trading – bought gold for $400 in 2003, now $1,400 in 2013. Same with silver and a little platinum. I’m not going to make predictions of dates / rates (only RV pumpers do that!), and it can be hard to read the market as the “spot price” of gold is based on how “paper gold” (Gold ETF’s, etc) are traded which you may know is over-sold vs “physical gold” (actual investment grade bars) many dozens of times over. Gold fell this year due to some paper-gold holders panicking and wanting more physical gold than they could get their hands on in the short term, so they had to lower the price of their paper in order to buy required physical. At the same time, debasement of currencies can also only be “contained” by manipulation of paper up to a point before it “spills over” into higher gold prices.

    “A shortage in gold = a fall in gold price” is backwards to many, but sadly the “paper gold” market is manipulated like that which you need to be aware of. However, if things really got bad and the Gold ETF market imploded under the weight of demand for physical, gold could positively sky-rocket well above $2k/oz. It’s also always been a hedge in times of uncertainty which is why with the drum-beating to bomb Syria, gold was up again, then when Cameron backed off, it fell slightly again.

    Silver as an investment tends to mirror gold. A higher percentage is used in industry (ie, jewelry, silverware, dentistry, electronics, photography, chemistry catalysts, optics, mirrors, biocides, medicine, low-E window “sputtered” coatings, silver-oxide batteries, decoration, architecture, etc). Likewise physical silver bullion prices are higher than the paper prices. Silver market is also 18x less money than gold, and often more volatile due to sudden large trades. Collecting silver coins is quite popular these days too, so you’ll always find someone to buy them, even just on EBay.
    .

    Iraq is a mixed bag – the potential is there for a good return on a successful growth investment but as usual, it’s the security concerns that put many off. Dozens more dead & hundreds wounded in a dozen bomb attacks over just the past 3-4 days – stuff you won’t read on “RV” forums, but each attack is listed on Independent Iraqi news websites like this:-
    http://en.aswataliraq.info/Default1.aspx?page=category_page&c=47

    Security sector growth in Iraq is strong but that’s almost a negative in itself (a bit like “Good news for safe manufacturers – burglaries are up!” isn’t exactly ‘good news’ for everyone else!) Oil is probably a stable long-term bet (but won’t affect the Dinar as its sold in $). Agriculture, transportation, construction & healthcare will probably gradually grow, but tourism sector to be honest, is going to be iffy for many years (Erbil is supposed to be a large ‘safe’ tourist place in Kurdistan, but the rest of Iraq is still filled with security checkpoints & military helicopters due to ongoing relentless car-bombings).

    Other developing markets are really “up and down” at the moment because everything is interlinked. If the West gets weaker, so does the East because they sell mostly to the West, etc. ISX like any stock market is a risk. Even if there are strong risers, it can still fall due to “general market sentiment”. It’s also much harder to find solid research in English on listed businesses than it is other stock markets, is quite “bank heavy”, not all stocks are electronically tradeable (last time I checked) and it falls every time a bomb goes off (as often as 3x per day). Very high risk at the moment, to be honest.

    Anyway, all the best to you & your family too Goateeman, hope things work out well for you!

  23. John Richardson says:

    No problem Goateeman. No-one here’s going to ‘rub anything in’ as the pumpers are so incredibly duplicitous & sly, they probably could sell someone a “Brooklyn Bridge!” (if they haven’t already, LOL).

    What to invest in now? Barry pretty much summed it up. Developing industries were a pretty “safe bet” a few years back, but even obvious “safe” ones like Brazil & India aren’t that certain. There was virtually a run on the rupee this week due to “capital flight” out of India. India took a lot of investment money and instead of investing in roads, etc, they just bought gold. Problem is, food inflation is now soaring because as much as 40% of food produced in India is rotten before it gets sold (due to no investment in infrastructure, ie, roads, refrigerated trucks, cold storage logistics, etc). That’s partly what the food inflation & “onion crisis” thing was about in the news (bad monsoon weather aside). Brazil’s inflation rate is shooting up, etc. Even China is down in some sectors and closing some factories on news of the USA cutting back on QE (showing that even a lot of China’s growth was essentially subsidized by printing money).

    Nothing to do with Iraq, sure, but the point is right now, even “safe bets” aren’t safe anymore. You could certainly buy some silver (buy on a dip, and don’t overpay too much of a premium if they’re low on stock). Precious metals are unique in tending to do better when everyone’s panicking (like now, LOL :-) ). Or wait until major stocks indices soar (Dow, FTSE, etc), and then “short” them with an Index trackers “short ETF”? Or pick relatively “safe” blue-chip stocks with high dividends and buy on a dip (people still buy food, household cleaning products, clothes, etc, even in a crisis)? Flip commercial property? Corporate bonds? Mining stocks? I’ve been doing not too bad “shorting” the market & medium-risk corporate bonds. This isn’t really the right board to go into detail on them, I’m just throwing out some ideas that might appeal, you could research.

    I hang round here to keep an eye on Iraq, but the recent surge in bombings have put me off for a while. Like Barry, I’m also cynical of investing in Iraq’s “tourism” in one half-accessible city (Erbil) surrounded by armed men looking out for car bombs… Despite the hype – it ain’t a “Kurdish Dubai”…

    Really, it sounds like property is your thing though, and as Barry said – if you’re good at “flipping” – you might as well keep doing what works for you (you know far more than me about Canadian real estate market). It’s hard to give honest advice on stocks, etc, as nearly all countries are aggressively intervening in the market / their currencies to some extent, and what “should” happen according to “traditional fundamentals” and what does happen are often two different things! All the best to you to mate.

  24. Helir says:

    Little confused with the money supply numbers mentioned on this post. Went to cbi and CBv and also googled money supply by country and the numbers on both central banks and the site mentioned above. Where not even close to the numbers mentioned here , for example Vietnam money supply in quadrillion. They state a much different number?????

  25. Barry says:

    Helir, the CBI’s figures are in plain sight in “Monetary Aggregates” and “Key Financial Indicators” under the “Statistics” section. And Vietnam’s has been reported internally and by both the World Bank and Asian Development Banks:-

    “Money Supply M2 in Vietnam increased to 3,519,375 VND Billion in 2012 from 3,125,961 VND Billion in 2011.”
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/vietnam/money-supply-m2

    3.519 million billion is 3,519 trillion or 3.519 quadrillion. That’s why it’s so low – it’s not ‘undervalued’, just diluted through overprinting like Zimbabwe. Some do state M0 figures as well (which is obviously lower) but that’s only a small part of the currency’s actual money supply (M2).

  26. King says:

    Barry, John and Bob…….

    Impressive work as always. And Goateeman, it takes a big man of both stature and character to admit being wrong and learning from it.

    “Good judgement comes from wisdom. Unfortunately, wisdom only comes from bad judgement.”

    I read your arguments and understood why you were led to those conclusions. Its not your fault because the only thing flooding Google search engines is what pumper sites put out as “real intel”. It is only in these comments that these myths and lies can be debunked and proven false because of the diligent few who have the knowledge and have taken the time to do the reseach. Most importantly, they give the advice freely and show you where to find that information for yourself, since we are usually the only ones who can change our own minds lol. Not too many people are willing to learn from a mistake or correct an line of reasoning, but I believe that you are about to become a powerful and knowledgable authority on this subject as many of these guys have.

    You will be hounded by dinarist and you will be called a fool. But you willbe the fool who still has his house, job and will nto be in foreclosure because you sunk your lifesavings into wallpaper.

  27. goateeman says:

    Good morning Lads, well at least it’s morning here in Canada. Thanks King for your response, when your faced with overwhelming proof of something and it flies in the face of what you thought was right, a “man ” has no choice but to suck it up and bow to defeat , as I did. It was a hard pill to swallow, but I am glad I did.As now,with all that I have learned from this forum, I will keep with me for life, and will scrutinize future financial ventures in its entirety. Although I do quite well with real estate here in Canada, sometimes it gets boring doing the same thing,and other ventures that show promise become attractive, just to add some excitement, and to expand into areas that are outside the ” comfort zone”. I am the type of person who thrives on learning new things or ways to succeed, no matter what direction that I find myself heading.I am glad that Barry,John and Bob were all over me shooting down the information that I had come to believe was correct, and again many thanks and good wishes are sent their way, as well as you, King. I still have a couple of friends who just can,t see the writing on the wall,and believe that there is going to be a huge RV of the dinar. I have told them all the info they need is right here on this site, and to look no further for the real truth with regards to the dinar. I told them that putting it quite simply that for the dinar to RV at 1-1, Iraq would need to have 79 trillion US dollars to back that RV up,but they still don’t see the light, oh well to bad for them.And for anyone else caught up in this for that matter.One of them actually e-mailed the sites they go to for their info asking “is it true that there are 79 trillion dinars printed and in circulation, and would Iraq need 79 trillion US dollars to back it up” a question that was posted a week and a half ago with no response, heck they didn’t even print his question on any of their forums.Something, he says never happened before, as all his queries in the past were replied to within hours, and posted.I told him that, that should be all you need man to get the heck out and cut your losses.Anyways Lads have to go and put the finishing touches on my latest property flip, ALL THE BEST LADS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES, TAKE CARE , GOD BLESS……GOATEEMAN

  28. Jd says:

    Barry and Jon:

    For you to whine and call this a debate and to use words such as “ROFL and OMG” doesnt make it true. Sounds like you guys are pumpers. There are positive and negative pumpers..Since you guys know whats going to happen in the future why dont you give me next weeks powerball numbers..oh wait..I forgot to use ROFL like you did.

    I will agree that Kuwait did not RV..I will not agree that people didnt make any money from it..Since I know someone personally who did. For you guys to come at me in such a childish manner..remember I neither agree with an RV nor disagree. I for one know that I cannot fortell the future.
    You description of knowing the speed of the car was hilarious. and over done…ofcourse its not going to come down the street at 60-90,000 mph. But 20-40 mph makes sense..
    Anyway please keep going with letting us know how smart you are about knowing the future and how dumb everyone else is because I sir enjoy the fortune tellers named Barry and Jon.
    Oh dont forget the power ball numbers, thanks

  29. Barry says:

    JD – Those who know what they’re talking about discuss the facts. those who don’t just sit there and whine about those who do. Pretty clear which category your post fits into… Have a good day. ;-)

  30. John Richardson says:

    JD – “You description of knowing the speed of the car was hilarious. and over done…ofcourse its not going to come down the street at 60-90,000 mph. But 20-40 mph makes sense..”

    LOL. Then obviously the analogy flew straight over your head. “30mph -> 90,000mph” is exactly what the deluded “RV” brigade have spent the last 10 years arguing with their stupid fantasy “$3 rates” out of confused nostalgia. Only totally divorced from reality morons thinks anyone’s currency leaps 300,000% for no reason because 99.999% of people who don’t hang round “RV” forums are all “too stupid to see the secret!” or that Iraq will end up with 3x Earth’s worth of money despite having an economy that’s less than 0.1% share of Earth’s (including oil sales). ;-)

    I suggest you read the latest article:-

    “Nafee Elias, a financial advisor at the North Bank, told Al-Monitor that the step to delete zeros is merely an administrative process, and the currency equation should remain the same. This means that the purchasing power of the new currency should be equal to that of the old currency.

    “Ahmed Faizullah, deputy head of the parliamentary Finance Committee, agreed with Elias. Speaking to Al-Monitor, he noted that the deletion of zeros will not affect the Iraqi dinar’s purchasing power, because the latter is linked to the size of industrial production and imports.”

    “Amid these views, Enas Mohamed, deputy director at Naseem Al Shemal Brokerage Company, told Al-Monitor that the stock market will be harmed the most by a change of currency and the deletion of zeros. The price of a share is one dinar, so currently 1,000 dinars are equal to 1,000 shares. Following the deletion of zeros, the new dinar will be equal to 1,000 shares
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2013/10/03/economists-divided-over-deletion-of-zeros/2/

    You’re obviously new here JD, so here’s a piece of advice – no-one’s saying Iraq won’t improve 1%, 2%, 5%, etc. We’re saying the deliberate “RV” misrepresentation of what’s extremely obviously a value-neutral redenomination (and has been all along) is a scam. And yes, it is. We both know Westerners aren’t panic buying Dinar from Western Dinar sellers on the back of any serious 10% return investments, they’re doing it for the same reason people bought into Tulip Mania – manufactured get-rich-quick hysteria by pumpers openly lying through their teeth.

    Your obviously anguish filled post might actually have a valid point if pumpers were talking about investing Dinar on tangible investments in Iraq & Iraq’s infrastructure, and critics were abnormally talking that down disproportionate to observable reality, but we both know full well that isn’t even remotely the situation.

  31. Bob says:

    JD : “Anyway please keep going with letting us know how smart you are about knowing the future and how dumb everyone else is because I sir enjoy the fortune tellers named Barry and Jon.”

    Translation : ‘How DARE you criticize my favorite RV guru’! :-)

    On a more serious note JD, as John said, you appear to be extremely confused in thinking any criticism of conmen = bashing serious grown-up investing in Iraq. They are two completely separate issues. “Investors” (ie, Dinar mis-selling scam victims) often deliberately try and conflate the two to try and silence criticism of “their man”. That’s works on censorship heavy pumper forums but that’s not what this forum is about.

    If you’re one of those people trying to “relativize” everything where facts and outlandish conspiracy theories / outright lies must have “equal merit” when “shared with enough faith” then follow it up with “shut up & wait and see” rhetoric, then you’re probably on the wrong forum. This is a serious investment forum and people here want the truth not a false comfort blanket endlessly trying to kick “difficult questions” down the line (like so many “RV” specific forums).

    Iraq has created over 80 trillion Dinar. Iraq also has under $80 billion USD to back all those 80tn Dinar with. Iraq’s actual economy is only about $120-140bn including all oil sales – most of which revenue goes to pay Iraq’s +$100bn govt budget (in place of taxes). A very small trickle goes into the CBI for increasing reserves. The non-RV redenomination is painfully obvious to anyone with an IQ over 90 and / or a working calculator…

    Iraq’s CBI policy is a STABLE exchange rate. They don’t want the IQD to start soaring vs every other currency on Earth because that will kill off all foreign investment. Comprende?

    Since you’re so fond of “fortune tellers”, I’ll quite happily join Barry & John in predicting the future for free : Iraq is not going to have a money supply that’s both 3x larger than the entire planetary global economy (whilst its economy makes up 0.15% of planet Earth’s economy even with all that oil) and still “magically” have a value anywhere near the $. Nor is Iraq going to have a money supply 800x larger than its economy and be worth parity vs the $ (whose money supply is roughly 1:1 vs its economy). What’s going to happen is Iraq will redenominate (or “lop” as they’ve been repeatedly & clearly stating all along), and a lot of confused scam victims will start crying their eyes out over how they’ve been “cheated” over something they never understood in the first place, part out of confusion, mostly out of deliberate mi-representation / deception.

    Will the Dinar go up 10% over the next few years? Might well do. But given that most Dinar “investors” instantly lost 15-20% of their initial “investment” in extortionate ripoff exchange fees, they’d still not even break even. Even if it went up a whopping extremely unrealistic 50%, minus 20% exchange fees, over 10-15 years that’s still barely an annual compound rate of return of 1.20-1.98% per year. Hardly some Earth shattering “secret millionaire investment opportunity” that will make “naysayers” look “foolish”, is it?…

  32. Jd says:

    Wow. you guys like to hear yourself talk alot. This website is pretty slow on the news and I will stick around ever so often just to read what else you guys try to pump on here. If you actually go back and read what I just wrote and then what you just wrote..you would actually notice that we agree on afew things..but you are so concerned about letting everyone on this forum..all…4 of us how smart you are. So like I said I’ll be back ever so often to watch the comedy hour. Tell me how much of a newbie I am again since you think you know me so well. If you only knew.
    Let me here some more lol’s, ROFL, and what ever highschool kids are using these days.
    I’ll be back soon but this website is so slow on posting anything recent. Take care kido’s.

  33. Barry says:

    JD, you need to look in the mirror before calling anyone “self obsessed”. Your latest post didn’t even attempt to address ANYTHING anyone wrote – nor the one before that on August 24th – where you wrote : “I feel the hopes are on what the Kuwaiti currency did, which was revalue and those people became instant millionaires” and where I (and John elsewhere) responded to you, debunking your false claim (which I suspect is what’s really gotten under your skin) here:-
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2013/07/22/officials-divided-over-dinar-reset/comment-page-2/#comment-260307

    To which you went silent, before popping up 6 weeks later whining about what you falsely believe other people think of themselves – and your endless false assertions that when someone posts a fact you don’t like it must be out of “a display of self-pomp” – rather than simply correcting an incorrect claim you made with the facts (straight from the Kuwaiti Central Bank’s website at that).

    I haven’t written “I’m smart I am”, etc, anywhere – that’s just you projecting your false belief to give yourself something to moan about as a substitute for producing any coherent response. Seen & heard it all before by those who pop up with similar “hit and run” style tactics trying to look cool after losing an argument…

  34. Jd says:

    See this is what Im talking about. Your so worried about talking that you never noticed my post stating that you are correct that Kuwait did not RV in my post from yesterday. And you think Im mad because I didnt pop up 6 weeks later..The only reason I popped up 6 weeks later is because this website only updates every other month..Slowest website ever. I could care less, in fact Its amusing to have you guys be so wound up and mad when someone else posts. Thats why I come back..Because your so easy to get to.

    Your words: To which you went silent, before popping up 6 weeks later whining about what you falsely believe other people think of themselves – and your endless false assertions that when someone posts a fact you don’t like it must be out of “a display of self-pomp” – rather than simply correcting an incorrect claim you made with the facts (straight from the Kuwaiti Central Bank’s website at that).

    Anyone who reads this will know your too busy listening to yourself and know I corrected myself yesterday. ANYONE from this display of posts know your ego just got in the way. ; )

  35. kev says:

    Actually, jd, the way you keep posting, it seems you’re the one with the huge chip on your shoulder who “keeps talking past people” and try and smear everyone else as “haters”…

  36. Dr. R. Keiferland says:

    JD – “ANYONE from this display of posts know your ego just got in the way.”

    You speak only for yourself, sir. There have been some excellent posts here from several people explaining everything that’s wrong with the false premise of the “RV”. Your’s is not among them.

  37. Rondo says:

    This discussion has been very .. entertaining & informative. I personally hold dinar & have no intention to sell at this time. I must say,if speculators break even or even lose money there will be thousands of pissed off people. I mean,some folks I’m personally aware of hold untold millions of dinar! How can Iraq instill confidence to investors if they stiff speculators abroad? I don’t claim to be an expert on economic velocity,currency valuations or monetary policy but I do believe there is potential here for a small profit. Perhaps holding the physical currency is risky but there are other avenues to explore in terms of investing in Iraq’s tremendous growth potential in the coming years. I’ve been on this train wreck for 3 years so no point in jumping off at the last stop! Thanks to all!

  38. Barry says:

    Rondo -“How can Iraq instill confidence to investors if they stiff speculators abroad? I don’t claim to be an expert on economic velocity,currency valuations or monetary policy but I do believe there is potential here for a small profit.”

    Genuine investors are people who *spend* IQD & USD on Iraq’s tangible businesses & infrastructure. Amateurs who hide a few banknotes in a sock drawer inside the USA out of confused nostalgia for 1970’s era currency values aren’t really “investing” in Iraq at all. Iraq isn’t really “stiffing” anyone since the “RV” Dinar mis-selling scam originated inside the USA from American pumpers targeting American’s who don’t speak Arabic and have zero prior experience in currency trading or witnessed other countries redenominate, and hang on every word of a few posers pretending to be ‘secret agents’.

    Most Iraqi’s don’t even know about non-Iraqi’s getting scammed on the back of false 99,000% get-rich-quick pumping. To an Iraqi the concept of hanging round ridiculous web forums like “Dinar Alert” to “find out” if every banknote, ATM, money counting machine, accounting process, stock & bond markets, bank accounts, retail accounts, business accounts, etc, in Iraq has all been replaced ‘in secret’ without anyone in Iraq knowing about it, but BillyBob from Alabama being first to “break it” is absurd. And it is given the CBI have repeatedly stated there will be 3-6 months of intensive public awareness broadcasts about their planned renomination / lop ;-)

    Rondo -“I’ve been on this train wreck for 3 years so no point in jumping off at the last stop! Thanks to all!”

    I know one person who’s being saying the same thing for 10 years. The poor guy used to have long hair – he’s now practically bald :-D


IBN Newsletter 'FREE Weekly Subscription'

Advertise with IBN