By John Lee.
We get many enquiries at Iraq Business News relating to the future of the Iraqi dinar (IQD), for example:
- Will the Iraqi dinar increase in value?
- Will the currency be re-denominated, dropping the 'three zeros'?
- Is it wise to buy Iraqi dinar?
Firstly, Iraq Business News is not in a position to give investment advice. Our mission is to provide our readers with the highest quality information on the business and economy of Iraq.
As the value of the Iraqi dinar affects trade, we will continue to report on any possible re-valuations and/or redenominations as soon as information is available.
We hope that this information will be useful to the key decision-makers in Iraqi business, and to all who are interested in the development of the country; gamblers and people involved in get-rich-quick schemes/scams are not our target readership.
It's clear from the correspondence we receive that some people, who like to think of themselves as 'investors', genuinely believe that at the stroke of a pen they will make a 1,000-fold return on their purchase of dinars.
Those people might like to consider some questions before putting any further funds at risk: Read more ...
Stew...lets think about this. The US rolls with trillions in debt with substantially less than the Iraqis have in wealth. How does that prove or disprove the validity of a revaluation of the currency. If anything it showes that these countries that extended debt forgiveness know the value of Iraq. Hence why China is sending out a delegation to explore investment options. How would it throw a country into trillions of debt that makes an average of 6-10 billion usd a month in oil revenues (as seen in transaction files of the defense fund) not to mention natural gas revenues, no telling how many metric tons of gold and more. The treasury is not so foolish as to continue to hold trillions of dinar if it was toilet paper. Now many others have given substantial evidence in support of an revaluation of the Iraqi dinar. USD will not always be used on the streets of Iraq. They will pull the usd off but it will take at least 1:1 to do that. Again, you are entitled to beliefs, perhaps when you come back with articles to validate your beliefs on why Iraq will remain co dependent on the usd and never place the dinar (their own currency) up to international standards. Is that not why the push for IMF to pay Kuwait on behalf of Iraq, or debt forgiveness so other counteries can advance their abilities to invest, in order to be fully released from chapter 7, to have their own democratic government, to have full control over their own monetary system. You hold this country in low regaurd as well as its capabilities. Once tensions are eased and the pride ceases, when Iraq works together for the good of the whole, it will acomplish much more than you could ever imagine. It is notebly one of the richest counteries in the world and the only thing holding it back is political posturing, this I am sure for their people they will overcome.
Here's another Morsel, Tidbit or Hint...LOL...
What the video illustrates here, is where the U.S. is headed..NOW!....UNLESS?...ANYONE?...name ANYTHING?...that could bail us out?...BUT, most of the "world monetary entities", have been saying for quite some time now, that there will be a "Global Re-Set of Currencies"...WHEN?...Can anyone guess that one either?...2 articles came from the G-20 meeting and 1 from the IMF just a short while back...basically depicting that the "Global Economy" would be stimulated, bailed-out, etc...from the "Emerging Market Countries"...SAY WHAT?...DID THEY JUST SAY RV?...DID IT MEAN NOTHING?..Go Figure?...BOTTOM LINE: THE BEST EXPERTS OUT THERE WONT ANSWER THIS...OR THEY SIMPLY CANT?...ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS...ANYONE?
Chris: "My thought was those trying to debunk this issue side step the information such as what is going on with Paris Club, IMF, defense funds and other articles that substantiate this investment as sound"
You mean "substantiation" like:-
“A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar”
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/
Oh yeah, clearly the IMF is saying "100,000% RV". LOL. The only "side-stepping" here is by those who ignore everything the Central Bank of Iraq, Iraqi Finance Committee, Iraqi parliament, IMF, etc, are saying of the currency values in search of twisting irrelevant facts about debt (they're not the same thing) values to be "proof of the RV" that tells them what they want to hear...
Chris - "As the second largest producer of oil in the world, there is no excuse for poverty."
Back in the real world, Iraq isn't even in the top 10 for oil production (what did Russia, USA, Iran, China, Canada, Mexico, UAER, Brazil, etc, all just fall off the planet?, LOL):-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production
Even if they boosted oil production right to 3m barrels, they still wouldn't even be in the top 8. It's precisely blatantly obvious false "facts" like these that give away those who do nothing more than parrot claims they've overheard in a web forum without bothering to check any facts at all (whilst simultaneously hypocritically claiming "do your own research!")
Chris - "So those people can hang on to the hope Iraq stays as it is"
Dry your eyes Chris. No-one's "hoping Iraq stays as it is". We're just pointing out the mathematical impossibility of a "100,000% RV" as it being deliberately mis-sold... Your post is one giant over-emotional straw-man from start to finish...
As for those mumbling about "The Paris Club" over and over - all that is, is debt relief for a variety of countries who have little chance of paying it off. The Paris Club has also written off debt for Nigeria, Ethiopia, Indonesia & Sri Lanka (after the 2004 tsunami), Haiti, etc. People act like debt relief was invented yesterday and is "unique" to Iraq...
Chris - "The US rolls with trillions in debt with substantially less than the Iraqis have in wealth."
God knows where this stupid "less wealth than Iraq" wild delusion came from. The USA's economy is $15tn / 314M people = $47,700 per capita. Iraq's is $143bn / 30.5m people = $4,600 per capita. If by "wealth" you mean "oil which hasn't been dug up yet" then you obviously don't understand how economy's actually work. It's only "wealth" when it actually gets sold - you can't double-count and sell the same barrel of oil twice (once when you find it and once when you actually sell it). This is nothing more than the common fallacy of "oil fetishism" and confusing trying to include sales of oil years and decades in the future in with today's GDP to justify an existing over-inflated currency...
And since you're obsessed about oil, the USA produces 7.8-8.0m barrels of oil per day compared to Iraq's 2.5-3.0m, so I can only presume that you also believe a leopard is smaller than a house cat...
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At the end of the day, if the Dinar moves in real terms vs the $, then conversely the $ devalues vs the Dinar. This is as basic junior school level economics as it gets yet it's utterly jaw-dropping how many Dinar holders consistently ignore the blatantly obvious "elephant in the room" on the other side of the equation (the person buying your Dinar and selling $ back to you - not just when you change your banknotes back - but long after that in the form of normal everyday trade with Iraq!)
If the IQD shot up 1,000x vs all the world's currencies WITHOUT A REDENOMINATION, then IQD's will instantly become 1,000x more expensive to buy, trade and import (as would Iraqi products priced in Dinar) for everyone on Earth (and no-one would end up trading with Iraq because no-one's going to spend $1,000 for each Dinar tomorrow when they could buy it for $1 today if Iraqi goods haven't equally redenominated by the same ratio to match observable reality)...
As has been said by many others - repeatedly - a 1,000x fold upward movement of the Dinar vs the $ is no different than a 1,000x devaluation of the $ vs a static Dinar. If you haven't "got" the effect of that by now, then I doubt you ever will see the blatant absurdity of what's been staring the "Go RV!" crowd in the face all along...
Chris - "lets think about this. The US rolls with trillions in debt with substantially less than the Iraqis have in wealth. How does that prove or disprove the validity of a revaluation of the currency. If anything it showes that these countries that extended debt forgiveness know the value of Iraq. Hence why China is sending out a delegation to explore investment options"
Yet again Chris (and Amanda), all you've done is confuse "economy" with "currency". They aren't the same thing at all. It's possible to have a weak currency and strong economy (China, Japan & South Korea), and it's possible to have a strong currency and weak economy (Greece, Portugal, Fiji, Bulgaria, etc). Of course, countries are looking to invest in Iraq for the long-term, but that's utterly irrelevant to the fact with 72 TRILLION Dinar in circulation (vs 29 BILLION Dinar of Kuwait), the Iraqi Dinar is devalued by over 2500:1 vs its neighbor because it's been 2,500x overprinted vs its neighbors money supply, and no amount of "boosting trade" with anyone will cure that massive, massive discrepancy.
Hence the planned redenomination they've been talking about every single month quite clearly and plainly...
Central Bank of Iraq : "Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Tuesday that the project of Iraqi Dinar re-denomination consisting of removing three zeroes is close to completion. The re-denomination project is believed to be a strategic plan that will be passed to the ministerial council and Parliament once complete. Iraqi economists believe the re-denomination of Iraqi Dinar will not have a major influence on the purchasing power of the Iraqi Dinar. To that, the adviser to the Central Bank Mohammed Saleh, said that this experience had previously been applied in countries such as Turkey. The Iraqi currency change will not have any effect on the international value of the Iraqi dinar and economy. “Deputy chairman of the ICB Dr Muzher Saleh said the bank is working to issue the new currency in addition to coins in both Arabic and Kurdish. This will include a new 50 Dinar bill with a value of $43 [50,000 current note Dinar]."
Iraqi Finance Committee : "The change that will take place with the Iraqi currency will change the face value of the dinar and not the real value as measured by the value of Iraqi dinar against the dollar and gold" Sami Atrushi, Iraqi Finance Committee.
Iraqi Parliament & Economic Committee : "Mahma Khalil, Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of the Economic Committee stated that the new bill will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure it will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market,” explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new [redenominated] banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000.”
IMF : The CBI [Central Bank of Iraq] will continue to aim at keeping inflation low, predominantly by maintaining a stable exchange rate. The low level and the relative stability of inflation do not suggest any significant over- or under-valuation of the Iraqi dinar."
This isn't 2006 where the redenomination was ambiguous and pumpers could make up any old thing as a substitute and follow up with "no-one will know" in response to things they don't want to hear - this is 2012 where almost monthly announcements on the redenomination explaining it very clearly as a redenomination including live TV broadcasts inside Iraq to 30m Iraqi's about the redenomination removes any doubt whatsoever over what Iraq are planning (at least to those who haven't plugged up their ears in denial...)
If you strongly feel otherwise, then I can only suggest you write to the IMF, CBI, Iraqi Economic, Finance Committee's & the Iraqi Parliament and tell them how "clueless" they all are about their own country because someone you read so on the Internet said so...
.
"Economy" and "currency" are not the same thing - South Korea is fully industrialised with a GDP of $1.5tn (10x larger than Iraq's) and yet the S. Korean Won is 1,134:1 vs the $ (roughly the same value as the Dinar!) This is because of their massive money supply (440tn). Conversely, the Fijian $ is only 1.8:1 vs the USD, yet has a tiny economy of just $4bn (35x smaller than Iraq) that's actually been shrinking, overspends almost 40% on Govt spending vs annual budget revenues, and has 25% of the population below the poverty line. Yet the FJD is strong vs the $ because it has a far smaller money supply of under just 3tn (M2) and banknotes (M0) that are counted in the billions (not trillions)!
"Currency and "debt" are also not the same thing. Greece is drowning in debt yet is still 1:1.25 vs the $. Conversely, Vietnam's debt is only a fraction of its GDP yet its ultra-weak currency 20,8400:1 is because they have printed over a QUADRILLION Dong. It's that simple!
Why do you think the exchange rate of oil-rich Iran is 10.5x weaker than Iraq at 12,259:1? Same again - it's because Iran's money supply is 1,065,961,300,000,000 Rial (1.065 QUADRILLION Rial). They too are thinking of redenominating like Iraq and Turkey (but lopping 4 zeroes instead of Iraq lopping 3 and Turkey lopped 6):-
"Iran plans to slash four and not three zeros from the national currency, the rial, Donya-e-Eqtesad reported, citing Central Bank Governor Mahmoud Bahmani. The bank will present its proposal to the government in six months, the Tehran-based newspaper said. If the cabinet and Monetary and Credit Council approve the plan, the bank will start withdrawing notes and printing new ones, Donya reported. Iran’s Economic Affairs and Finance Minister Shamseddin Hosseini said on April 2 that the government plans to remove three zeros from the national currency this year. The plan to redenominate the currency was requested by the government in 2007 and delayed because of the need to ensure price stability first, Hosseini said. One dollar exchanges for about 10,400 rials. Iran’s inflation accelerated to 12.4 percent in the 12 months through the Iranian month of Esfand, which ended on March 20th, from 11.6 percent the previous month."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-06/iran-plans-to-slash-four-zeros-from-currency-donya-reports.html
Please learn how currencies are actually valued (ie, vs the money supply), as right now, all you guys (and gals) are doing is the same thing pumpers have been doing since 2004 - trawling the web harvesting any positive news about Iraq's economy or rebuilding, throw it out as irrelevant "feel good news" or "tidbit rumor", and then ignore the blatantly obvious fact that back in the real world, a nation's currency's strength is primarily determined by the money supply quantity, and not economic exports (you only have to look at net importing countries with strong currencies to see the blatantly obvious there, for example : France, Poland, Ukraine, etc).
Forgot to add the SIGIR (Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction) one :-
SIGIR : "CBI has announced that it intends to implement a long-planned redenomination of the Iraqi dinar by eliminating three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes." - SIGIR quarterly report, July 30th 2010.
http://www.sigir.mil/files/quarterlyreports/July2010/Report_-_July_2010.pdf
Enough said...
Indeed Barry, John, stew, etc. It utterly defies belief people ignore the obvious "flip-side" to the equation : Currency A appreciates vs Currency B by 1,000x = Currency B effectively *devalues* vs Currency A by 1,000x. Why American's want the Dollar to grow 1,000x weaker vs the Dinar and "boost trade with Iraq" in real-terms is really a fascinating study in group self-hypnosis...
If something in Iraq costs 117,000 Dinar ($100 current value at 1170:1), and it redenominates to 1.17:1, then its price will have 3 zeroes lopped to 117 Dinar and be exchanged internationally at 1.17:1. It will still cost $100 both domestic equivalent and international exported value. This what both Iraq and non-Iraqi's who trade with Iraq WANT to happen.
But if something in Iraq costs 117,000 Dinar ($100 current value). And it "revalues" 1:1.17 without any redenomination the way the pumpers are promoting (value up 1,000x vs everything other currency and everything else stays the same with no price redenominations (no "lop")), then its price will remain 117,000 Dinar inside Iraq (due to not being redenominated) and yet the new external exchange rate will be 1:1.17. This means it will supposedly cost both $100 inside Iraq and $100,000 to export to non-Iraqi's outside Iraq simultaneously (because it now takes $100,000 to buy 117,000 Dinar post-RV vs only $100 today). That's so silly it defies belief people actually believe in it / attempt to ignore it / pretend the obvious fallacy away with invented deluded conspiracies or simply lack the IQ to understand the effect of currency movements on international trade...
- Even if Iraq "revalues" to 3:1 ($1 = 3 Dinars), you're still arguing that non-Iraqi's will pay $39,000 to buy 117,000 Dinar's to import something that cost $100 to import yesterday and is still effectively $100 inside Iraq in current real terms due to an abnormal 333.3:1 introduced artificial split between real international prices and a fake "RV" artificial peg.
- Even if Iraq "revalues" to 10:1 ($1 = 10 Dinars), you're still arguing that non-Iraqi's will pay $11,700 to buy 117,000 Dinar's to import something that cost $100 to import yesterday and is still effectively $100 inside Iraq in current real terms due to an abnormal 100:1 introduced split between real international prices and a fake "RV" peg.
- Even if Iraq "revalues" to 100:1 ($1 = 100 Dinars), you're still arguing that non-Iraqi's will pay $1,170 to buy 117,000 Dinar's to import something that cost $100 to import yesterday and is still effectively $100 inside Iraq in current real terms due to an abnormal 10:1 introduced split between real international prices and a fake "RV" peg.
- As for the ludicrous 1:3 rate ($1 = 0.333 Dinars) based solely on looking up a figure from 30 years ago which wasn't even accepted as real value back then, you're still arguing that non-Iraqi's will pay $351,000 to buy 117,000 Dinar's to import something that cost $100 to import yesterday and is still effectively $100 inside Iraq in current real terms due to an abnormal 3000:1 introduced split between real international prices and a fake "RV" peg.
No matter what "rate" you use for your theoretical "RV" or what the pumpers advertise, - 1:3, 1:1, 3:1, 3.33;1, 5:1, 19:1, 37.2347:1, 100:1, whatever - the entire "logic" and maths behind it simply doesn't work and is a made-up "what if" fantasy / joke that despite "going viral" (becoming a cult following) doesn't even begin to add up. The export vs domestic prices don't add-up with either each other or the global market for the same goods in other countries!
The "RV" argument is complete nonsense that attempts to create a Communist-style, banana-republic, anti-free market, top-down dictated rate with a ludicrous massive artificial split between domestic prices and prices of exported goods when valued in other currencies almost completely divorced from reality! No matter what you claim - back in the real world, people will not buy anything from Iraq via such a ludicrously overvalued (RV'd) currency, their exports would collapse to zero and the Dinar turn into a "junk currency" virtually overnight.
1170:1 IS the market value of the Dinar given its huge 72tn monetary supply as verified by IMF & World Bank reports. The IMF openly state that in their own reports! You just don't want to believe it as that threatens your millionaire fantasy addiction. It's not "undervalued" at all, and there's nothing to "return" it to in the past as as Barry, Stew, John, etc, correctly explained, that early 3:1 oft-pumped value was already corrected back in 2003 with a 150:1 redenomination of Swiss Dinars (which didn't have that value decades ago - see black market (real) rates 9:1 higher at the time) to NID's in 2003 (which have never had any value remotely approaching that). Someone mentioned earlier the phrase "confused nostalgia". That's the most perfect description of those fawning over the 70's & 80's exchange rates and ignoring the obvious massive inflation and 150:1 Swiss Dinar redenomination vs the NID and gapingly different money supply expansion that has occurred since!
The exchange rates ALWAYS have to match BOTH ways, and the only way is via a redenomination which resets prices and money supply by the exact inverse factor as the currency grows in strength, so that the equations actually balance. Ie, if Iraq wants 1,000x stronger currency, they'll exchange bank-notes at 1:1000 and divide prices by 1,000. This is how it works in reality, always has done, and is what Iraq have repeatedly said they'll do (see above CBI / SIGIR quotes) when they eventually get around to it. There is simply no other magic, "secret" or way it can work - Iraq no exception. Oil is irrelevant - see Iran's production vs their 10.5x weaker than Iraq's currency or Venezuela's lop despite having double Iraq's oil reserves. People are doing nothing but projecting their desired wants in place of reality on the back of manufactured hype.
Also back in the real world - no bank on Earth would pay 1,000x more in $ rate to buy back notes than what it sold them for - they'd all be bankrupt (literally). That's why amateur Dinar sellers all universally have a "We have no legal obligation to buy back your Dinar" disclaimer on their websites (and why pumpers, eg, Breitling have a "This website is for entertainment purposes only" at the bottom). They know full well there is no "RV" - but make vast sums of money off gullible amateurs who not only pay 10-1400% more in commission fees to rip-off conmen vs normal 5-10% spreads for bank-notes of all other currencies, but they even laughably subscribe to "alert services" and "secret intel" (as if changing every banknote, ATM, money counting machines, accounting / auditing fractions, cash tills, etc, in a country of 30m people will be done overnight "in secret" and BillyBob of Arkansas will "know" ahead of Iraqi's who live in Iraq. That's patronizing / intelligence insulting snobbery / ego-centricism beyond measure...)
Meanwhile Alsumuria TV in Iraq (along with all majr Iraqi newspapers) continues to explain to 30m Iraqi's every month exactly what a redenomination is, and how Iraqi's will change their banknotes up 1:1000, how three zeroes will be lopped during the redenomination, etc, and amateur Western "investors" ignore it because they either don't understand Arabic, or they simply don't want to hear the truth and continue to scribble out "redenomination" and crayon in "RV!" and throw around immaterial facts on every single statement coming out of Iraq on the issue in stark denial of reality...
Dear Iraq Businessnews. These are great questions. And by the looks of it, I see it has brought out the best of people and the worst of people. I will not answer the questions as I feel the reason I took the route to purchase was 'choice'. I looked, read, and felt that this 'gamble' was no different than the stock market. It is all about choice.
What perplexes me is the amount of energy spent by the "No Go RV" crowd trying to discredit those of us who choose to participate. So what if we lose money. I have lost more in the market over the last several years than I will lose on this gamble. However, I have it in the power of this gamble to score bigger than I did in the market.
So, the choice was mine and with that, I choose to continue with this gamble.
Since many seem to know so much about money, and the who, what, when, where's and how's of it...watch this and report back...oh, then see if you can get an audit of the federal reserve or any other large monetary entity...then you may ALL see where most money is not ACCOUNTED for, and even then, most of it is only electronic figures or pencil etchings on paper anyway...At this point, EVERYONES theories are just fun and games, no different than the Dinar...except that it HAS had gains, whether some love this or hate this...good luck to all these EXPERTS...LOL...
http://www.dinarguru.com/1/post/2012/02/cnbc-video-the-baghdad-job-iraqs-missing-billions.html
4aprofit - "Since many seem to know so much about money, and the who, what, when, where’s and how’s of it…watch this and report back"
Corruption in the Federal Reserve has no more impact on Iraq's redenomination than corruption in China's currency peg manipulation vs the $, or corruption in Europe's "missing billions" or corruption in offshore Caymen Islands money laundering accounts, etc. This is just another example of people ignoring the plainly obvious and scrabbling round trying to "connect" every single imperfection outside of Iraq as "proof of the RV"...
As for Iraq's increase in value, yes of course it has. And the USD has increased in value vs the British £ from £1:$2 to £1:$1.50 (25% "RV") over the past few years too. Go back and re-read what we're saying though, and you'll see most people aren't opposed to owning Dinar for long term serious investments (actual tangible Iraqi infrastructure) - they're opposed to the process of a few cowboys deliberately mis-selling Dinar (ie, "Quick! Quick! buy $1k Dinar now, stick it in your sock drawer and by next month someone else will give you $1m for it!", blah, blah) on the back of fabricated "intel" and outright lies almost completely inverse to reality, to well meaning but naive amateurs for outrageous ripoff spreads.
The issue isn't a "dislike" of the Dinar. The issue is the deliberate intentional mis-selling of the Dinar using scam tactics identical to penny stock "pump and dump" fraud (which one or two Dinar pumpers were also involved in, several years ago). Thanks.
C36 says:
"What perplexes me is the amount of energy spent by the “No Go RV” crowd trying to discredit those of us who choose to participate."
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There is a very easy explanation for the effort.
...Most of us have been enticed to spend considerable sums of money on numerous things that are needless if this truly is a re denomination. Four thousand dollar Nevada corporations, two thousand dollar trusts, numerous bank accounts, chat site memberships, and myriad of other items are being sold to unknowing people because they think they are going to be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. .....What will anyone need with such things if this entire affair yields no more than 300% return? .....Additionally, the cold hard facts cannot be construed to support unsecured reserve strategies of any kind! It took a boatload of misinformation to bolster the dinar dealers and their reserve sales!
.....And what about the untold stories of people committing to the dinar in a last ditch effort to salvage an imminent fall into oblivion? ..This has happened far too often for anyone to ignore it.
....If my comments can temper any unhealthy decisions be people who are being mislead, the effort is worth all obstacles overcome!
I know folks that have lost either all, or a majority of their investments, from whereby the investment groups that they were in, hit them with fees and spreads on everything they did with their money..(not to mention minor & massive losses)...but these fees were to the point that there was not much of a windfall left sometimes, if any at all in some cases...I have heard this story so many times...this does not take into consideration the other pips some of these financial institutions are actually charging you for, that were supposed to be free...Most people will not join anything or prepare for anything until something substantial happens as per a windfall with the dinar...but, as in any investment...some will...to each his owm..but, at this point, no one knows what will or wont work anyway..as per any of this!...This thing is'nt over yet, or has'nt materialized as per the finality of it all...so why worry?..All I ask is show me something better! Have'nt gotten ONE reply back YET!...LOL...
Factfinder - so lemme get this straight. You feel that YOU made a bad financial decision purchasing IQD (even though if you've been in it any amount of time you've already made a profit) because while you admit we could make a profit here, you now believe it won't be as much as you originally thought? In other words, if you can't become a millionaire over night it's suddenly a scam and you should devote your life to attacking those who hope to profit in any way? We all know there are those out there who make outrageous claims and RV predictions (Okie, Hammerman, Jonny, Sweet Queen, Rich Queen, Soonerfan, Bulldog, Bluwolf, Bella, Tony, Freeway B, Cap1 etc.). They come from Nesara, WGS and Prosperity Package backgrounds and I would imagine have some pretty warped ideas about a lot of things but I personally have better things to do with my life than focus my time on something (or with someone) that I don't believe in anyway. Although I disagree with the ones I mentioned I do wish them the best and realize the ones who follow them do so because they have similar beliefs. Life is too short!! There are also a lot of great researchers from around the globe in this community (some believe in a big rv, some believe smaller increases like maybe 1000 to 1 as the next stage) with all different backgrounds and I've made a lot of friends along the way. None of us know how this will turn out and I admit there is no guarantee we will profit from this at all but I do think that betting on Iraq as a long term investment, where we will profit gradually, is a great bet to make. Keep spreading your doubt and lack of faith to others if it helps you become less bitter though. Lemme know how that turns out. I'd hate to look back at my life one day and realize that I had wasted so much time on something I believed in so little. By the way, we don't need saving, there's far more risky investments out there you could save people from. "Fact Finder, Our Hero!!" LOL
when these guy`s say the dinar is a GOOD QUALITY CURRENCY I`M ALL IN! http://www.dmcc.ae/
and for some strange reason my dinar in the AED IS WORTH A COUPLE GRAND! MY 3MILLION IN DINAR WORTH ABOUT 8000 IN DIRHAMS!
Mellissa K says:
September 1, 2012 at 2:27 am
"Factfinder – so lemme get this straight. You feel that YOU made a bad financial decision purchasing IQD (even though if you’ve been in it any amount of time you’ve already made a profit) because while you admit we could make a profit here, you now believe it won’t be as much as you originally thought? In other words, if you can’t become a millionaire over night it’s suddenly a scam and you should devote your life to attacking those who hope to profit in any way? "
Melissa K, needs to stop putting words in other peoples' mouths! ....I made no mention of the dinar situation being a scam, but did mention how mountains of misinformation have lead people into situations where they have been taken advantage of. ....This entire thread has been devoted to getting all of the information presented in a way that is fair and balanced. ....That is a rare occurrence in the bizarre world of dinar devotees. .....Just how and why people think presenting only the embellished, positive side of this scenario is going to somehow bring it to fruition is beyond my pay grade. ....My comments are intended to bring balance to the hype so we can all make rational decisions based on the facts.
Having lived in the Middle East myself, I can assure you that the general opinion of the populace is that Westerners have no right to a share of the riches their countries possess. ....And I believe the final result there will mimic that sentiment. ....Iraq will do what is best for its people and future generations, while outsiders will make a modest return on their efforts to be a part of the process. ...And any high profit situations will have to be supported by outside sources beyond the will of the people.
It's a puzzle with many critical pieces missing, and the general populace needs a balanced presentation for critical decision making.
Mellissa K:
~99% of dinar investors think there's an extremely good chance they'll make at least a 10,000 percent return. The majority think at least 100,000%. Many think at least 300,000%. Some think over a million percent. Those returns are all completely impossible and will never happen.
They've paid enormous markups for a currency. There are constant lies and misinformation posted by hundreds of "experts" with "intel" and "contacts" every single day. There are dozens of places charging them for this "intel" and also for trust setups, offshore investing strategies, and all kinds of other nonsense that they will NEVER need (not because of the dinar anyway).
Sure sounds like a scam to me.
Melissa it's human nature to try to warn people when you see danger. I remember hearing a preacher tell a story once about driving along the Lake Pontchartrain bridge in Louisiana. He said a barge knocked a span out of the bridge and a bus went into the lake and one of the survivors climbed up to the bridge to stop people and warn them. I figure that's what I'm doing and others like FactFinder are apparently doing the same. I've discovered that people are spending their hard earned money on a fantasy about turning thousands into millions. Face it, nobody buys dinar on the hope that it will increase in value 10% a year. They'd have to wait for 2 years just to break even. I bought dinar thinking there was a chance that I could make millions. I knew it was a long shot but I figured I could always get 80% back so I was only risking 20%. Now I realize that I was risking 100% and there is no chance of making millions. That changes the whole equation. If people want to buy dinar knowing that they're risking 100% and at best could probably only double or triple their investment that's fine with me. But most are buying the "risk 20% to make millions" sales pitch which is a lie.
IMO...Just keep buying/holding US DOLLARS....either SOMETHING will bail them out...or it won't matter what type of currency you are holding here pretty soon..period!..Here we go again...THAT IS WHY SOME HOLD DINARS!...AT LEAST THEY HAVE'NT DONE WHAT THE US DOLLAR HAS DONE..THROUGH "I N F L A T I O N"...WHERE THE DINAR WAS'NT AFFECTED..OR TO THE SAME DEGREE..LET'S PUT THIS IS IN KINDERGARTEN TERMS...IF $1000 OF US CASH AND $1000 WORTH OF DINAR WERE STUCK UNDER THE MATTRESS...LET'S SAY APPX. 3 YEARS AGO...WHILE FOOD HAS PROBABLY INCREASED 100% AND FUEL A 1.00 PER GALLON IN THE U.S...HYPOTHETICALLY LET'S SAY 20-TO-30% OF YOUR US DOLLAR WAS LOST THROUGH INFLATION...(BUT NOT PHYSICALLY)...BUT NOW JUST HOW WAS YOUR DINAR AFFECTED AS PER IT'S US BUYING POWER...ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS HAS NOT MATERIALIZED AS PER BETTER OR WORSE..OR TO A DEGREE..OR YET?...DOES ANYONE COMPREHEND THIS?...WHY ARE SO MANY WORRIED OVER LOSING WITH THE DINAR, WHEN MANY HAVE HAD GREAT LONG TERM GAINS, WHILE MANY OTHERS SIMPLY WAIT FOR THE SAME OR BETTER...LET ME ASK SOME OF YOU, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOUR US DOLLARS, IF YOU DONT HOLD AT LEAST MAYBE SOME GOLD, SILVER, EMERGING MARKET COUNTRIES CURRENCIES..LIKE THE DINAR OE WHATEVER ELSE, ETC...(MANY OF THE WORLDS MOST REKNOWNED EXPERTS AGREE THAT THERE MUST BE DIVERSIFICATION DUE TO THE SIGNS WE ARE SEEING)..IF I LOSE HOLDING DINAR, SO BE IT, BECAUSE THE WAY I SEE IT, IF IRAQ CANT MAKE IT, WITH TRILLIONS MOVING INTO THEIR COUNTRY FROM ALL OF THE WORLDS SUPERPOWER COUNTRIES, AND WITH AMERICA DOING NOTHING FOR THE MOST PART, WHO CANT FIGURE THIS OUT, OR WHY?.."I CALL IT FOLLOW THE MONEY"...WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO EXPLAIN...LOL..
Sam I Am, why are you talking about a preacher and his sermon to support your agenda when you have a website called "douchebags" that encourages trashing anyone with religious beliefs? What would your preacher say about your current lifestyle choices? That would be an interesting sermon. LOL
Well if you've actually read my blog you know that I don't encourage any such thing. In fact I'm a man of faith myself. I take issue with the idea that the RV of the dinar is a blessing from God or that it's proclaimed in bible prophecy. I am offended by people who pump this dinar fantasy under the guise of Christianity, kicking off their conference calls with a prayer before they dive into their lies about the dinar. But I have never "trashed" anybody because of their religious beliefs nor have I encouraged anybody else to do so. And my pastor would probably approve of the fact that I'm exposing lies and con artists who are exploiting people. That's perfectly compatible with my faith. Thanks for asking.
Sam I am, that's a lie. I've read your blog and trashing people of faith is not only what you allow, it's what you encourage, not to mention rather than just attack the information other investors present you choose to put out information that is often a lie about their personal lives, like anyone cares. You admit that we may make a profit investing in Iraq but that it won't be as drastic a profit as you had once thought it would be. That's still a profit. You also admit that you DON'T HAVE A CLUE HOW THIS WILL END!!! Your mission in life is to discourage people from from investing in something that you yourself openly admit that they can profit from. Can anyone say identity crisis? LOL!!
Remember folks...there are those just as crafty at being what I call "Dumpers"..those that try and get you to dump or sell your dinars...which is just the opposite of the "Pumpers"...those who pump a lot of fabricated stuff to get people to buy in...while all the while, there is appx. the same spread coming and goin..buying and selling of the dinar...if a dealer can buy and sell the same dinar several times, he's paid for a million of them...the propaganda flows both ways...but one must be content in this if they feel lead to buy in, as per not letting these folks play them...in other words, many just buy some dinar and forget about it, while trying not to let emotions control them during the riding out of this investment..The bottom line, is many feel, that for as little that they could invest in this, it would be ludicrous to miss out on it, should it turn out to be a windfal...but some use their gut, common sense, prayer, etc...to decide whether to delve into this or not...MANY SAY, WHY WORRY, EVERYTHING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ROCK-SOLID, BULLET-PROOF, SOUND AND STABLE..IN THE U.S. AND MANY OTHER PLACES...HAS TANKED!...SO HERE WE ARE...LOL...
Here's a post I made in October of 2011 called The God Factor. http://dinardouchebags.blogspot.com/2011/10/god-factor.html In this post I stated my views on this topic. How anybody could interpret this as trashing religion is beyond me. In fact the comment at the bottom from a Christian was supportive of what I wrote.
Melissa I don't know if you're a pumper or a lackey for Frank or what, but you're obviously not here to discuss facts. This conversation is over.
4aprofit - "IMO…Just keep buying/holding US DOLLARS….either SOMETHING will bail them out…or it won’t matter what type of currency you are holding here pretty soon..period!..Here we go again…THAT IS WHY SOME HOLD DINARS!…AT LEAST THEY HAVE’NT DONE WHAT THE US DOLLAR HAS DONE..THROUGH “I N F L A T I O N”"
4aprofit, you obviously haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. Inflation in Iraq is even higher than in the USA (and openly stated as such on the CBI website):-
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/08/20/iraqs-inflation-hits-7-1-in-july/
There have been many statements made as per Iraq having some of the lowest inflation in the world...my gosh, I would expect it to be even higher inflation over there due to what all they have been through, but, with all the trillions flowing into their infrastructure and oil development, it will get even better...besides that, many of us will just continue to reap profits while we wait until they have -0- inflation...The gains many of us have made overshadow this anyway...BY THE WAY...THIS INVESTMENT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE...SOME CANT SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES!...LOL...
P.S. I CANT LET MYSELF WORRY OVER ANY BAD IN THIS...WHEN GAINS ARE ALL THAT I'VE HAD!..I'M STILL WAITING ON AN ANSWER AS PER SOMETHING BETTER...TO NO AVAIL...LOL...
http://www.citibank.com/transactionservices/home/tts/corp/docs/IRAQ_CountryProfile_JulyAug2010_FINAL.pdf
What happens to the usd fiat currency when all member counteries go to asset backed. Does the USD change. Iraq is not the only one that will redenominate as they go to more stable currency. As stated previously, this is a plan set in motion from the begining, there are plenty of resources out there to show the stratigic framework agreement for Iraq. The global economic chaos will present solutions never before seen. Everything presumed to know will change. I do not understand much but I am trying to learn. I am still reaserching basal3, why the implimintation of the dodd frank dipository insurance, "living wills" the banks had To submit back in July, and so much more. When people say what is happening on the global scale is history in the making, it is true. Iraq is also very much apart of that. No one against the investment has a desire to "warn" people. Most assuredly it is to belittle and make the average investor feel stupid. Otherwise this article would have simply stated how Iraq is a terrific long term investment and be cautious of the "pumpers". Instead it was used to make the investor look foolish for wasting money. I think people that have faith in the stock market are taking a huge risk. The numbers on the Dow are a joke. Bernakie says no help from the fed and the dow jumps, on the "hint" he gave for future aide. We all chose our risks based on our beliefs. I do not jump on the blog spot for the dow insinuating people are foolish. This article shows its true intent as does those negatively posting. I chose to invest and I know it was a wise decision based on research. A wise person does not rest in what they know, but continues to learn and grow. If you feel the need to help people wake up to bad investments write an article on how infomertials are a scam or write to the govt who let all of us get scamed with the Solyndra (sp?) solar energy that still went bust. Again, the intent is to malitiously spred negativity about something you yourselves do not believe in. This is what it truely boils down to. Have a blessed weekend.
And Barry...find some articles outside of iraqi business news, it would help lend more credibility to your come rebuttles 🙂 Have a good one.
4aprofit - "There have been many statements made as per Iraq having some of the lowest inflation in the world"
As I said, go and look on the CBI's website for the truth... they've managed to lower their inflation from double & even triple digits to single digits, but it's hardly "lower than the USA" (as you falsely claimed).
4aprofit - "many of us will just continue to reap profits while we wait until they have -0- inflation…"
LOL. Countries don't have 0% inflation especially if their economy is expanding. Do you think Saudi Arabia or Kuwait have 0% inflation just because they export lots of oil? Do you think expanding China has 0% inflation? It doesn't work like that...
If you want a real long-term hedge against inflation - buy gold and silver. The Iraqi Dinar is just as much an inflated fiat paper currency as anyone else's...
4aprofit - "BY THE WAY…THIS INVESTMENT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE…SOME CANT SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES!"
Indeed they can't, 4aprofit, indeed they can't... 😉
"STILL WAITING ON AN ANSWER AS PER SOMETHING BETTER…TO NO AVAIL…LOL…"
Are you asking me if there are better investments? Well of course there are...
Dude, even sticking your money in a savings account is better in terms of real compounded return over 10 years... All these people saying "I bought 1m Dinar at 1400:1 back in 2004, and now it's 1168:1, so I've made profit of 17%" are kind of missing the point that a 17% profit over 8 years works out to annual growth of only 2.125% which is no better than the average zero-risk high-street savings account paying a paltry 2% annual compound interest (and a lot worse than higher-rate zero-risk fixed-term deposit accounts or bonds or gold, etc)...
In fact it's far worse, since high-streets don't take a 15-20% cut of everything you pay in. Example, DinarTrade is currently charging $1,020 for 1m Dinar (for what's basically $856 worth of Dinar). After 8 years, $1,000 of $ stuck into a simple 2% low-rate savings account would be worth approx $1,171. At 3% it would be $1,266. After 8 years of Dinar growth however, first of all even bought at 1400:1 rate, every $1,000 instantly shrinks to $856 due to the rip-off spreads pumped amateur Dinar traders are giving. Then that $856 "grows" 17% to $1001 (1400:1 2004 to 1168:1 today). That means you've made $1 profit over 8 years or approx 12.5 cents profit per year... The real rate of return even for those who bought at 1400:1 Dinar rates in 2004 is zero. For the vast majority who bought at the peak of the hype under 1200:1 2007+ onwards, the rate of return has actually been negative (zero to very little movement + 15-20% loss of initial investment on extortionate commission fees). The only people who've made a profit are the ones selling and pumping Dinar to you, not the ones buying them! (And all that ignores further potential ripoff charges changing them all back to USD!)
As for "SOMETHING BETTER" outside of the stock market, you could make quite a lot on Forex (serious Forex I mean not pumper garbage), investment bonds, precious metals, etc, if you know what you're doing. In 2002, I bought gold for $300/oz. Today it's $1,690/oz - a 460% profit. Even delivery of heavy physical tangible gold bullion has a lower spread than what Dinar sellers pump paper Dinar for...
I also made 50% profit on the FALL of the Vietnamese Dong. Whereas Dinar pumpers are laughably trying the same absurd con with the Dong of trying to convince people than Vietnam's past 700% sustained chronic inflation rate "didn't really happen" and is "secretly undervalued hidden wealth which everyone else is too stupid to see except me and my secret agent friends!", I saw it for what it is and took out a 2:1 geared put option. After some Dinar holders started panic buying the Dong with the laughable belief that "$1,000 Dong will become $20m when Vietnam RV's!" (still with 1 Quadrillion Dong in circulation of course...) - the Dong FELL 25%, and many Dinar pumpers quietly stopped pumping it out of sheer embarrassment, when the obvious sank in...
So there's plenty of opportunities out there 4aprofit. Even simple savings account have paid more in real terms than even buying Dinar at 1400:1 rates have let alone 1170:1. Zero-risk fixed-term deposits / bonds over 4% return per year have gained more (enough that for those who bought at 1170:1, the Dinar could appreciate in real terms to 850:1 and they'd still have made less profit than simple 5-year bonds even at today's rates let alone the pre-2007 higher +7-8% rates). More serious investments have given a lot more - double even triple digit returns (that's each year not just a one-off!) The problem is, people naive enough to not understand the Dinar "RV" mis-selling scam, or why weak global currencies are weak in the first place in general, are precisely the ones who shouldn't be playing around with the more complex pro-Forex stuff...
Hope this helps give some perspective, because there are plenty of far more profitable alternatives out there.
I've always said that for anyone to spend so much time worrying over what others do with Dinar...unless they know the facts...especially as per the gains that some have already made..is retarded!....For an example, why would someone who likes Skydiving, go and pick up a copy of Needlecrafting, just to be able to lightly delve into the subject enough, to be able to write bad things about what he or she hates about Needlecrafting?...even when they may even possibly know nothing about the subject...(On another note, who in their right mind, spends time, like hours reading, writing and deliberating on something they hate, "as they most assuredly must not be in this investment", to simply seek out and look for the bad)...Bottom Line here folks, there are those with an AGENDA'..plain and simple!...Until they lead us out of this into what they actually are doing that's better, (if they can), and actually really start studying what they do believe in, as per being better...(that is proven)..like some of them say that this is NOT!...IF YOU WANT TO WARN ME OR HELP ME, QUIT HIDING YOUR SECRETS THAT WILL HELP "US" TOO...OR JUST SHUT-UP..Case Closed!!!
Chris - "What happens to the usd fiat currency when all member counteries go to asset backed"
No idea where you got that from as even your own link didn't state anything of the kind. It's just a guide to doing business in Iraq, labor laws, taxation, setting up business in Iraq and an advert for Citibank at the bottom.
Chris, with a money supply of 72tn (72,000bn) Dinar, Iraqi's aren't going to be capable of backing even 1/10th of that with any assets including oil and gold put together. That's precisely why a redenomination is inevitable in the first place... It's a complete delusion that "everyone in the world except the USA is going to be on a gold standard". It's also laughable that people keep using "fiat" to describe only the USA, when virtually all +180 countries on the planet are also "fiat". Everything not on a gold standard and 100% full reserve banking is fiat! For all the inflation that's occurred in the USA with bank bailouts, QE, etc, half the world's currencies (including the Iraqi Dinar) are even more inflated and wealth diluted - that's precisely why they're valued so low vs the $ in the first place. Go and look on the CBI website at the amount of new Dinar being printed each year and CPI inflation rates, - and it's even higher than the USA.
All you seem to be doing is same as before - trying to defend a mathematical impossibility on the back of complaining about the global recession in general, ie a "false dilemma"... I totally agree with you that the whole world's in a bit of a mess, that we could do with far better banking laws that keep OTC derivative leveraging in check, instigate far greater central banking transparency, etc - but the Dinar is still not going to "RV" 100,000%...
"Again, the intent is to malitiously spred negativity about something you yourselves do not believe in. This is what it truely boils down to. Have a blessed weekend."
No, Chris, that's just you emotionally over-reacting to criticism / getting angry when people disagree with you and declaring anything that takes you out of your debating comfort zone as "malicious" even when its intent is nothing of the kind... I don't "hate" anything and anyone - including you - I've just spoken the truth and backed it up with verifiable facts sourced directly from the CBI, IMF, Iraqi Finance Committee, etc, and for some reason those simple, verifiable facts have made you angry and upset because you have no answer to them other than shooting the messenger...
You have a good weekend too, Chris.
4aprofit - "I’ve always said that for anyone to spend so much time worrying over what others do with Dinar..."
And I've always wondered why Dinar holders always resort to questioning others right to post and debate in a public debate forum when they read something they don't like...
You asked me a question "I’M STILL WAITING ON AN ANSWER AS PER SOMETHING BETTER" and I answered that politely and respectfully. You moaned when no-one answered you and now you're moaning because I answered you? I guess there's no pleasing some people...
Things that need to be brought out...The most recent G-20 meeting, as well as the IMF...have basically said that the Global Economy would be stimulated by the Emerging Market Countries...I am not into arguing all the schematics of every little detail, or of the purchase of my dinars, or any other emerging market country's currency...Some of the wealthiest people I know own Dinars and other currencies and assets as well...(most of them have lost in pretty much everything, and have tried it all)...but, many of them have stated that most everything that was supposed to be safe...that they are presently worried about, is regarding the insuring of what they possess presently, as per it's safety, due to all of the instabilities in places never seen before...Most know that the majority of many of the wealthy and even politicians, as we've seen, have assets offshore...we know that many of the Trump, Soros, Buffet types, predominently engage in offshore investing, diviedends, etc.....some legal and some maybe not so legal probably...What the bottom line here is many common folks will never be able to do any of this type profiteering from afar, where some of the best gains are...So, if we read btween the lines here, some believe there is a chance that we could have a windfall...however small or large...who knows, but there is a chance...so if some take it, more power to them..if some want to stay where they are at, more power to them as well...but I guess I must repeat myself here..(((the final bell has not been rung as per the finality of this dinar thing))), nor some other countries and their currencies...We all wait to see what happens...but some see all of it through fog and negativity..while some dont...Should we have a right to feel or be positive?...I DO...FOR THOSE THAT DONT...DO YOUR OWN THING!
4aprofit - "Should we have a right to feel or be positive?…I DO…FOR THOSE THAT DONT…DO YOUR OWN THING!"
Um, I already "do my own thing" 4aprofit (as explained 5 posts above in answer to your question). I agree there's really nothing left to say. You have a good weekend too 🙂
Barry...no hard feelings, but do you want to sell you Dinar?...Or do you have any?
This is a ride-it-out or jump-off the train situation with the Dinar!...It'll either Flop or Pop!...We can cry and only look back at the city dump along the tracks...or we can pray to heavens betsy...she makes into the big city over them hills and valleys!...Everythings a RISK...Literally!...Everybody calm down...everytime you drive your car a few miles...your at the mercy of what a thousand others may or may not do', as per you making it to your destination!...Was'nt it Trump who said something to the effect, that it was'nt just having the money that was the excitement, but it was the thrill and the challenge of getting there..or something to that effect...oh well, dinars, dongs, dollars, widgets or whatever...stimulis, QE's, Bailouts, inflation, recessions, depressions, wars, etc., etc., etc...Let's all pray we make it through it all in one piece!..Life is not always easy, but we can hope for the best anyway!...God Bless...
4aprofit what will happen if god will not bless?
There's no pop. It's flop or nothing. The dinar is either going to muddle around the 1170-1000 to 1 area, in which case most people that paid 1080+ per million will lose money, or it will RD, in which case people will likely lose somewhere between 40 and 100 percent of their investment.
The change of an RV to even 1 cent is zero.
Good luck on A THEORY!...As no one knows the FULL OUTCOME!...that's the FACTS!...If you want to...go ask Iraq why they have probably spent Millions in deliberating on, voting, going before Parliament, etc., etc., etc..Trying to figure out what to do with the ZERO'S on their currency...any country that has a currency that they know will FLOP...does'nt need to do any of this...they just let it float up or down, or would have already let it FLOP..if that was their goal, you dont spend money on something that is worthless...or that is already headed into the can!...If the U.S. Dollar became worth what the Dinar was worth...who would touch us tomorrow economically?..No different than Iraq eventually must be weaned off the US Dollar and have a RATE to operate on, as per the Trillions that are being put in place over there...It does'nt take a rocket scientist to see this...just follow the money...The entire World is moving into Iraq to do business, so it should'nt be hard to sniff this one out..some may have went into this thing like a mule with blinders on, but it's high time to pop em off...lol...
No one knows the exact value of AAPL is going to be on Tuesday. But I GUARANTEE it will not be 400,000. Same with the dinar. Maybe it will RD, maybe it won't, but a reasonably intelligent 8 year old can figure out that a 1,000+ percent RV will NEVER HAPPEN. It's not possible. Anyone that thinks otherwise is either a scam artist or has been mislead by a scam artist.
1. Their currency isn't worthless. It's worth around 70 billion dollars. Is that your idea of worthless? The debate about the RD (what to do with the zeros) is because Shabs wants to lop and he thinks they country is ready for it, and the GOI doesn't want to because they're worried that the people aren't ready for it and they'll undergo terrible inflation again. The debate about the zeros has nothing to do with withdrawing trillions of IQD from circulation or a massive RV, those are just guru lies.
2. What their currency is worth has NOTHING to do with the only thing that people want from Iraq, which is oil. Use your brain and actually think for yourself instead of just believing what morons like Adam Montana tell you. Oil companies pay Iraq in USD. If they need to pay for something in IQD, they exchange their USD and get 1166 dinar for each dollar. Explain to me how it's going to help them if instead of getting 1166 dinar per dollar, they only get 1 dinar per dollar? IT ISN'T GOING TO HELP THEM AT ALL.
3. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know where the apostrophe goes in a word, but some people seem to have trouble with it.
There's no reason there would ever be a large RV of Iraqs currency. It will never happen.
Let's stop the song and dance routine here!
....Those who have looked into the 'real' numbers realize there is no way there is a huge return in their future at the expense of Iraq and its resources. ...The rumors on oil, gas, gold, agrarian economy, commodities, basic minerals and everything else is so overblown and distorted that rational people pay the 'noise' no attention at all. ....The numbers don't even come close to adding up, ,,,,,and why in the world would any country be interested in weaving the FUTURE wealth of their nation into an open currency?
Savvy investors are in this because they are willing to take the risk on rumors that there will be a private purchase redemption, creating a profit. .....There are no hard, concrete facts to the existence of such a situation, but many are willing to chance the situation for the mythical opportunity.
.....If past history on these rumors still rules the present, the chances of the fabled redemption is about the same as running down to the corner store and buying a winning lottery ticket. .....Yet many have the faith and diligence to continue the wait!
Meanwhile many of us want to be positioned for any possible outcome, but have grown tired of the predatory antics of the dinar community!
Frank M & Factfinder: Do either of you OWN Dinars?...Do you want to SELL them or SELL OUT?...Or do either of you have ANY?...If so...WHY?...If not..WHY NOT?...As like I have to keep reiterating...many have already had good gains in the cash holdings of Dinars, the ISX and the Warka Bank Accts...and this gig aint over yet..for better or for worse as per the end result..and until it is...some will ride the Dinar-train and some will ride the US Dollar-train...but you gotta be on one or the other..so let a skilled DINARIAN take over those baby's for you...so ya dont fret no more, over what may not happen...it's already been a happenin' for some, whoever said this thing would be overnight anyway...bash-n-pout or hang-n-chill...it aint over till it's over...lol...
"the chances of the fabled redemption is about the same as running down to the corner store and buying a winning lottery ticket."
It's not even that good. It's possible to win the lottery. It's extremely unlikely, but it happens. Massive overnight RVs of third world toilets that have 70 trillion M2s do not happen.
The value of Iraqs currency is exactly where it should be, given the trillions of dinar they've printed. It's hilarious, you see people complaining about the US printing currency like it's going out of style, and then in the same breath these people say they're going to make millions of the dinar, meanwhile the CBI has humped around 60 trillion dinar (paper and digital) into the economy in the last 9 years.
Could Iraq be lying about the circulation numbers? No. Not to the extent it would take to bring about the fabled RV. In order to RV to 10 cents they'd have to be overstating their M2 by over 70 TRILLION dinar.
Is that possible? Again, no. If there were so few dinar in circulation you wouldn't see 500 million of them for sale every single day on eBay. You wouldn't have companies selling billions of them every year.
And does it make sense for the CBI to lie about the trillions in circulation? No! Not at all!
1. Iraq wants to be accepted by the IMF and the WTO, you DO NOT get that by lying about your circulation numbers by 99%.
2. They wouldn't benefit from it. If they reduced their internal circulation by so much and then RVd it'd be almost exclusively the foreigners holding the dinar that would benefit. Does that sound like something Iraq would do? No!
3. Even if they DID lie about the 70 trillion dinar (which they never, ever would, not to the extent necessary for a big RV), and then one day came out and said "Hey guys, sorry, there aren't really 70 trillion dinar in our M2 worth 1166 each, our M2 is really only 70 billion and they're worth a buck each" WHO ON EARTH WOULD BELIEVE THEM? No one! No bank, dinar dealer, or government entity (i.e. UST) would touch them with a 10 foot pole. Why would the UST be so stupid as to risk billions or trillions of their own USD in order to make a bunch of speculators rich based on a currency that the owner of which has been completely lying about for the last 10 years? They wouldn't!
The UST cashing in people and then holding onto the dinar as a reserve currency is just absolute crazy talk. How many dinar would you buy at a buck each? None! Why not? Because there's no upside and you wouldn't trust Iraq not to screw it all up and send it right back into the toilet again. So why on earth would the UST take that risk? They wouldn't!
The whole thing is just nonsense, and makes no sense whatsoever from every single angle. Iraqs currency is worth right around what it should be.
WORRY, WORRY, WORRY...GIVE US ALL A PRICE ON WHAT DINARS YOU GOT...TAKE YOUR MONEY AND RUN...
"Frank M & Factfinder: Do either of you OWN Dinars?…Do you want to SELL them or SELL OUT?…Or do either of you have ANY?…If so…WHY?…If not..WHY NOT?…"
Nope. Never have, never would.
"As like I have to keep reiterating…many have already had good gains in the cash holdings of Dinars, the ISX and the Warka Bank Accts…"
They've had SOME gains if they bought VERY early. I certainly wouldn't call them "good".
According to the CBI (check their website yourself) the worst the rate got in 03 was 1695 dinar per dollar. That means if you paid ZERO spread, you paid 590 bucks per million. Those dinar are now worth (again, with zero spread) 860 bucks per million. That's a 46 percent gain in NINE years, and it's with zero spread. If you paid a more normal spread (say 650 per million, and sold for 810 per million) then it's only a 25% gain. Over NINE years. For a very HIGH RISK investment. That's what you call a GOOD return?
You know how much money you'd have right now if you'd put 650 bucks into AAPL in 2003? Over SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. 650 bucks into silver (a virtually zero risk investment), you'd have over 4,500 dollars.
So no, I don't think anyone has really gotten a "good" return off the dinar. And they've only gotten a return if they've sold. How much of a return are they going to get if they lop, like Shabbibi says they will? Even people that bought in 03 will be lucky if they break even, and anyone that bought in the last few years will lose at least 50%, and could lose 100%.
"and this gig aint over yet..for better or for worse as per the end result..and until it is…some will ride the Dinar-train and some will ride the US Dollar-train…but you gotta be on one or the other.."
No you don't. I put my money into real investments, I don't take it out in 20s and hundreds and stick in under my mattress.
The people that say they've doubled or tripled their money are either liars or they found someone willing to sell to them WAY below the official rate, which isn't really a kosher way to quantify an investment. I mean, I might swindle some old lady into selling me her gold jewelry at 1/4th the spot price, but that doesn't mean that gold itself appreciated 400%, does it?
As far as a huge RV it is over. 100% over. Because the possibility was never there to begin with. It will never happen. When you finally realize that (either because they lop or because it's been another 10 or 20 or 30 years and it still hasn't happened) remember that people tried to warn you, but you were too stubborn to listen to the facts.
And good gains in Warka? Seriously? Try getting some money out of Warka right now, and see what happens. No one has been able to for MONTHS. It's quite possible anyone that put money into Warka has lost 100% of it, permanently.
Wow, what worry...do you need dinars?
This is an open question. Just to get clear in my mind, the IQD RD is going to be similar to a reverse stock split. Is this a correct analogy?
So, we are back to square one...just because some of you say so?...Dinars worthless?...ISX useless?...Warka Bank Acct. all lost?...Well, since many of you know so much about all of this and even some of you have never invested in any of this as you claim...and you seem to know all of our exact gains and losses...have any of you ever been to the Middle East?...Do you know exactly how this will turn out when it is all said and done?..Some state they do!..I dont!...As there are as bad or worse things already happening here in our markets...do you naysayers know for a fact that what you have invested anywhere is safe?...How can you?...Why would you worry over something that has'nt materialized yet with Iraq...when things are falling apart at home!...And many of you will spend countless hours wasted...telling me where I am wrong?...What a joke!..
4aprofit will you kindly shut up? So far except pumping and frustration you did not produce nothing substantial.
Have nice evening