By John Lee.
We get many enquiries at Iraq Business News relating to the future of the Iraqi dinar (IQD), for example:
- Will the Iraqi dinar increase in value?
- Will the currency be re-denominated, dropping the 'three zeros'?
- Is it wise to buy Iraqi dinar?
Firstly, Iraq Business News is not in a position to give investment advice. Our mission is to provide our readers with the highest quality information on the business and economy of Iraq.
As the value of the Iraqi dinar affects trade, we will continue to report on any possible re-valuations and/or redenominations as soon as information is available.
We hope that this information will be useful to the key decision-makers in Iraqi business, and to all who are interested in the development of the country; gamblers and people involved in get-rich-quick schemes/scams are not our target readership.
It's clear from the correspondence we receive that some people, who like to think of themselves as 'investors', genuinely believe that at the stroke of a pen they will make a 1,000-fold return on their purchase of dinars.
Those people might like to consider some questions before putting any further funds at risk: Read more ...
sam i am,
I agree with you, "They bought it thinking its value would increase"
Definition of 'Investment'
An asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or appreciate and be sold at a higher price.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp#ixzz27hATRRLu
"The same reason we have warnings for cigarettes. The same reason we list the contents on food packages"
Cigarettes and foods are a product. However, you claim its an investment. And you give people advice on this investment. And yet you see it as different??
I checked your source regarding your M2 calculations and there is a significant clause in CBI financial statement of 2011
As a result, the CBI does not have access to the accounting records of its Erbil and Sulaimaniyah
branches. Therefore, the accompanying financial statements do not include the financial
statements of Sulaimaniyah and Erbil branches. The CBI does not have any information to
quantify the significance of the branches financial statements and its effect on the CBI's financial
statements as at 31 December 2010 and 2011.
You may want to research this a little more before giving your advise on an investment. If I recall correctly, there is somewhere between 40-47 banks in the kurdistan region.
The indictment excutive order 13303, this order has many layers which include the CPA...So I thought I would add this link that I found for you to review
http://thecurrencynewshound.com/2010/12/31/fyi-document-protects-investors-abroad-in-iraq-coalition-provisional-authority-order-39-foreign-investment/
Make sure you read Section 7 Implementing Foreign Investment
Section 13 Treatment of Investors.. didnt the indictment say that the hedge fund was a middle east hedge fund??? I wonder how someone finds out if a hedge fund exist in the middle east?
this is for STEW you come on IRAQ BUSINESS NEWS A SITE THAT SHOW`S YOU HOW MUCH MONEY IS COMING INTO THE COUNTRY AND WHO`S DEALING WITH HELPING BRING THIS CURRENCY BACK TO THE INTERNATIONAL MARKET SOME VERY HEAVY HITTERS AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS DO I KNOW HOW MUCH I PAID FOR MY DINAR! YEA STEW I BOUGHT THIS STUFF FOR A PENNY I ONLY WANT TO SELL MINE BACK FOR A DIME! BUT AS OF TODAY IT LOOKS LIKE ALL DINAR WILL EQUAL ONE DOLLAR IN A FEW DAY`S LOL!!! HEY STEW BETTER GET YOU SOME!! IT`S BETTER TO HAVE SOME THEN NONE!! I KNOW YOU NAY SAYERS ARE SICK RIGHT ABOUT NOW ALL YOUR DOUBTS ALL YOUR DOGGING OF INVESTORS ON THIS SITE NOW YOUR TONGUE TIED BECAUSE IRAQ IS GONNA PAY OFF FOR ALL INVESTORS! MONEY THAT YOU FOLD IS FOR THINGS BOUGHT AND SOLD MONEY THAT YOU LAY FLAT AND STACK SOMEBODY WILL BUY THAT BACK! SEE YA AT THE BANK STEW!!!
2collectg do you really think Iraq is announcing that they're going to increase the value 1000 times? That article was just talking about how the CBI has been putting dollars into circulation to establish equilibrium with the street value in Iraq. It has nothing to do with an increase in the value of the dinar that investors hold. If I'm wrong I'll be back to congratulate you. If you're wrong I hope you'll be back to eat crow and denounce this fantasy.
Sam I Am, I learned long ago to never argue with someone who types in ALL CAPS...
you guy`s are a riot! there are to many big hitters involved with this currency and no matter how you guy`s lie the dinar is on it`s way back!! see when you get out of the BASEMENT MORE OFTEN you know that the arab monetary fund (AMF) DUBIA BOURSE ARAB STOCK EXCHANGE HEAVY HITTERS! AXIS SECURITIES FROM LEBANON DL SECURITIES FROM DUBAI THE WORLD BANK IMF UST BRITISH SECURITIES INVESTMENT ALL THE HEAVY HITTERS ARE IN ON A WORLD WIDE SCAM? I THINK NOT! hey get out the basment get some air to your brains while you guy`s are dogging investors the DINAR KEEPS HUMMING ALONG! gained 0.26% against the AED GAINED 0.15% AGAINST JORDANIAN DINAR POSTING 5.1805 DIRHAMS 1 AED EQUALS 3.67 USD!! guy`s your words are just that words i put more stock into the big money guy`s who are helping this currency come back into the international market! then your so called currency knowlege!
Just the first minute or two of this, as well as from appx. 4-1/2 minutes to appx. 5-1/2 minutes, will show just how big the party is, that's happening in Iraq...and this is "old news", but the entire thing is good...it just goes to show that wealth follows wealth and not poverty...and just because these basement dwellers, who never see the light of day from their own caves...cannot see what is laid out plainly right before their eyes..this alone proves that they all have an AGENDA!...in other words, how could one be such an expert and put out so many theories and explanations...telling everyone everything under the sun about what "Wont Work"?...I can make up a thousand reasons why "anything" wont work, especially if it has'nt happened yet!...Anything can happen, that's why some are in this, as things are already happening, actually in everything that is supposed to be time tested and proven...that is FAILING!..It is simply RETARDED to worry over something that has'nt materialized for better or worse as per the "end result", or yet!..This would be like sitting at the door of ones home, thinking and writing down a thousand reasons that my car might not start this morning, before I ever even walk outside and try to start it up!...Wow, what a bunch of LOSERS!..These people must eat cereal by using a microscope, while rats crawl around on their backs, due their intense micro-management of everything!...LOL...
P.S. Truly, there are those that walk among us, that cant see the forest for the trees...some of these must have logs in their yard stacked to the clouds..lol...
http://video.state.gov/en/top-stories/video/974775275001/promoting-commercial-opportunities-in-iraq-question-and-answer-period/s~creationDate/p~1/?p
4aprofit - How many times do we need to say this? Nobody denies that a lot of companies are doing business in Iraq. Nobody denies that Iraq's economy is growing. But what people like you fail to realize or perhaps just acknowledge is that a growing economy doesn't mean the currency will increase in value. More often than not the opposite is the case. At least 2collectg attempted to make a case for big hitters investing in the currency, as wrongheaded as it was. The deputy governor of the CBI just stated the other day that it will take over three years for Iraq's currency to appreciate 16% at best. Once you subtract exchange fees that would leave most dinar investors with no profit. Why would heavy hitters be putting big money in a no profit scenario like that? The heavy hitters are putting their money in businesses that are making money in Iraq, not the currency which is scheduled for the chopping block.
So, in essence, the World is moving into Iraq to lose..if they have anything to do with their currency?...Wow, what if the U.S. dropped the Dollar to the dinars rate, what would happen here, with nothing going on?...We would be toast!...But, so now with the entire World not only doing business with Iraq, but them eventually needing to be weaned Completely off of the Dollar for good...with trillions put in there, and now your saying that the currency will be a flop!..Well, if it is, so be it, but I myself, cannot bring myself to believe that Iraq, who having had a currency that has been as high as appx. $4.86 from like appx. 1932 to 1949, as some charts have shown, when oil was probably a buck or two per barrel...and now the country is truly being explored and tapped into, (nothing like 80 years ago), and some are saying their currency will FAIL..as per going forward, and as per opening up to the entire World here soon!
P.S...If I were as smart as some of you guys, I might not believe in this either!...lol...
4aprofit says:
October 5, 2012 at 4:37 pm
"…If I were as smart as some of you guys, I might not believe in this either!…lol…"
.......OK, I'm going to agree with you!. .....You apparently aren't smart enough to agree with the people presenting real facts rather than speculation!
....There are opportunities in Iraq, but not any that indicate their currency should be valued in ranges equivalent to trillions of dollars of wealth. .....The numbers just don't support any of that kind of nonsense, and the leaders of the country continue to issue statements indicating their one path to strength in a rate for the dinar is through re-denomination. ...The facts are quite clear,,,, and clearly indicate HUGE profits on the IQD at the expense of the Iraqi people are not the focus of any entities in the country.
....The above statement does not negate a profit, but does negate the 'fabled' revaluation that would make thousands of ordinary people instant millionaires!
The FACTS!...ha ha...WHAT FACTS?....When it's all over, said and done...then we may see some FACTS!..Until then...your facts are rumblings from your Mancave!...lol...
Profit... you readily believe the historical exchange rate info that is reported. Why is it you ignore the historical money supply numbers that show Iraq back in the early 80s had only 30 billion dinar and the current reported number is 72 Trillion? You talk about one and ignore the other. We acknowledge both and give an explanation. They have increased the money supply by over 2000 times. Does it not make sense to you that the rate would decrease by about 2000 times because of that?
One of the more ridiculous things I see on dinar forums, and there are many ridiculous things on dinar forums, is they are full of links to articles or videos talking about how the dollar is going to plunge in value because of excessive printing, yet they ignore the same exact thing that Iraq has already done. They think the dollar will plunge from increasing the money supply too much, yet can’t see the stack of 25K dinar right in from of their face and figure out Iraq already increased their money supply to much.
The US (the mighty US with a 13 Trillion dollar a year economy) has only about 1 Trillion dinar in circulation. Iraq (tiny Iraq with practically no dinar related economy) has 35 Trillion dinar in circulation. Iraq has 35 THOUSAND times more currency in circulation than the US.
Those are all reported numbers same as exchange rate. Why do you ignore them? They explain perfectly why the rate is where it is today. The IMF says the rate is correct where it is. The CBI is working their butts off to try to get the street rate of the dinar back up to 1166 official rate. The dinar has sunk in value to below 1200:1 for the last year. How can a currency that is, according to scammers selling it to you, set to increase in value 100,000% at any second, how can that currency be sinking below it’s official rate?
Sorry... should be Iraq has 35 times more curency, Not sure why I was thinking thousand.
Sorry... should be Iraq has 35 times more curency, Not sure why I was thinking thousand.
Propaganda, propaganda...no proof of the outcome until it's over...period!...Wish on that you are right!..No one knows how it will turn out!..So quit guessing at it with long theories!...lol...
Stew - "Why is it you ignore the historical money supply numbers that show Iraq back in the early 80s had only 30 billion dinar and the current reported number is 72 Trillion? You talk about one and ignore the other. We acknowledge both and give an explanation. They have increased the money supply by over 2000 times. Does it not make sense to you that the rate would decrease by about 2000 times because of that?"
Because they're trolls Stew. It's that simple. After 8/9 pages, they've shown their true colors over & over and the pattern is increasingly obvious. They're not after facts or two-way debate, they're driven by a blind desperate 'angry-greed'. That's why they produce the same tired old recycled posting pattern over & over of 1. Projecting their personal fantasies as "truth", 2. Getting angry when other refuse to share the same delusion, 3. Yelling silly outdated pumper salesmen slogans like "naysayers" and "dumpers" (which reveals their pumper lapdog roles even more), 4. Getting absolutely mauled with the facts, and 5. Wait a few days hoping that everyone will forget the prior multiple hammerings they received then start again at 1 for another "round" where they swiftly lose again & throw another sulky fit, etc...)
As far as "2collect" is concerned, this is a man who (on top of chronic illiteracy and blatant trolling YELLING every single word even though he's already proved in one or two previous posts that he can type normally when he wants to) thinks that Iraq is pumping 34x planet Earth's worth of oil and can't even tell 1m from 1bn even with the aid of a calculator:-
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2012/08/29/7-questions-for-dinar-speculators/comment-page-2/#comment-112870
As for "4aprofit" - aside from obviously stupid lies like "Iraq is one of the World's top 10 tourist destinations" (again this is blatantly obvious trolling), he also has similar profiles over at DinarVets where he also claims "the Dinar is backed by the Chinese Yuan and sulphur"... (You really can't make it up). So the Dinar is "backed" by oil. And the $. And the Yuan. And the Euro. And Sulphur. And magic beans, etc. Then in the next breath he confusedly posts a link to a statement by the CBI openly admitting that back in the real world the only thing backing the Dinar is $67bn of foreign currency reserves (promptly debunking himself). Then he gets more confused when it gets pointed out $67bn will not back a $67tn "RV"... Then he runs out of any attempt to argue and just screams "NO ONE WILL KNOW" over and over every day for a month like a deranged maniac. Reading some of his self-contradictory posts is like watching a pinball being constantly "bounced" from one cushion to the other, but instead of electro-magnets, the "cushions" are a string of increasingly unhinged self-contradictory paranoid delusional conspiracy theories he frantically grasps hold of them moves onto the next to "keep the dream alive"... On top of that he outposts everyone almost by 10:1 then whines & whinges about others "obsession" of posting less than 20... A blatant hypocrite to the core.
Looking back over 8 pages, all that's been posted here are the facts (many coming direct from the people in Iraq in charge of the whole process) - and those facts have driven 2collect & 4aprofit absolutely beserk to the point they sit there shaking with fervor that you even DARE suggest they won't become millionaires for sitting on their butts doing nothing (talk about entitlement "issues", LOL). Everyone else can clearly see the "elephant in the room". (Everyone else seems capable of 5th grade maths too...)
Little more needs to be said. Both will continue to churn out their emotional rants and barely readable ALL CAPS posts yelling the same silly sales slogans and egotistical megalomania based "No-one can possibly know more than me" chants, no matter how many times you explain the facts. It's like you visiting an aquarium and tapping on the glass at the fish - you'll attract their attention for a few seconds as their mouths open and close but the "communication gap" is simply too distant to even begin to seriously relate to on parity.
We're simply way beyond the point where truth is even an issue. They've made that pretty clear they actively despise truths that contradict them (even when it comes from Iraqi's). They just want a emotional "pumper comfort blanket" and be surrounded with "yes-men" like on other pumper forums where they hang out. The only thing both are guilty of is lacking the discernment to understand that Iraq-BusinessNews is NOT a pumper site and people here don't lap up deluded fiction nor will molly-coddle those who do. "Recirculated dishonest feel-good rhetoric" that works on DinarVets & and DinarRecaps simply doesn't work here. It should be pretty self-evident by now that IBN is a completely different site.
If only what some said were true...some love to misconstrue and twist things...all mad because some of us have already profited...these idiots state over and over again, about thousands of percentages of profit was expected...(I'll accept it)..and hey, whatever it ends up being, I'll accept that too...but if it's been o.k. so far for some of us, why fret?...all most of us await is the end result..good or bad..so we will just wait and see who is right or wrong...so until then, why worry?..How retarded!!!
This discussion has taken on the tone of a group of children attending a museum exhibit for the first time. .....You all know what I'm talking about,,,,,,,,,, one of those boxes with a curtained hole for you to reach in and feel the object, and decide what it is you are encountering solely through feel. .....Then the curtain is lifted and you have to foolishly admit that your own common sense fooled you!
......SO,,, I guess it's time to talk about the elephant in the room that both sides refuse to admit their interests in.
.....The numbers, propaganda, and guru nonsense about the Iraqi dinar do not add up for anyone with the slightest hint of common sense, but people are still committed to the possibilities of significant gains through possession of the physical currency.
.....Everyone involved in this discussion has by now heard of the prospects for what has been labeled 'outside support' for the currency exchange. ...And it is the possibility of this 'support' that is keeping the vast majority of folks in the game. ....IF there truly are 'global trusts', 'world global settlements', 'prosperity programs', and other such entities waiting in the wings to use a worldwide currency reset as their vehicle of choice for distribution to the masses,,,,, the wait and risk could be well worth the returns.
Does anyone know for certain if such things are true and certain?
....I've not heard concrete evidence in either direction, so one would have to consider this a very high risk opportunity.
....And I'm just guessing that most who may have acquired dinar for differing reasons and explanations, are willing to stay in the 'game' and see where it all winds up.
------------------------------------------------------
NOW THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THE ABOVE PREMISE AND WISH TO TAKE THE RISK ARE NOT THE PERSONS THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT.
....THE 'SCAM' DISTINCTION HAS BEEN MADE TO FOREWARN UNSUSPECTING NOVICES THAT THERE IS NO HARD AND FAST EVIDENCE IN THE PUBLIC ARENA INDICATING THE IRAQI DINAR IS A LUCRATIVE INVESTMENT OPTION!
As long as I and others have had profits as per long term, I really dont care what people call the Iraqi Dinar, you can call it "Mama's Cash Cow" for all I care'...because I am actually losing by holding US Dollars..So, why all the hooplah over something like this?....Pages and pages of uselesss trash theories about something that has'nt materialized as per the end result, while actually making a profit for many of us long term holders...So, until I actually lose, these idiots can write all the trash they want, because; "It aint over till it's over"....I guess I need to send these idiots a "recording", that repeats itself', saying this', so they can get it to sink into their pea-sized brains!...lol...
Factfinder - "IF there truly are ‘global trusts’, ‘world global settlements’, ‘prosperity programs’, and other such entities waiting in the wings to use a worldwide currency reset as their vehicle of choice for distribution to the masses,,,,, the wait and risk could be well worth the returns."
Factfinder, all those things you mention above ("global settlements", "NESARA trust funds", "prosperity programs", etc) even if they were real and did happen are completely non-specific to the Dinar & Iraq or any other single currency & country. Most such rumors and conspiracies of them long predated the Iraq invasion, 9/11, etc, by years. Eg, NESARA, which was based around global debt annulment and where the "prosperity funds" (backed by precious metals not oil) talk originated is almost 20 years old and started up in the 1990's under Clinton - long before 9/11, Bush & the neocons took office, etc, when Saddam Hussein was in power. Before even the Kosovo war.
Some Dinar 'investors' who only just recently "discovered" such conspiracies think it's new and a novelty - but its isn't. Certain websites talking about the possibility of simultaneous global debt annulment / global banking reformation / reciprocal derivative nullification, etc, aren't talking about Iraq or the Dinar at all being at the center precisely because there would be no single country center by design - it would happen across the globe all at the same time (and couldn't work any other way given the interconnected global banking system or that global derivatives are pan-national by design). The opposite obsession (Dinar specific sites suddenly talking up "prosperity funds") only happens because Dinar pumpers pumping a "100,000% RV" are now being openly & actively contradicted monthly by the Central Bank of Iraq, IMF, Iraqi Parliament, World Bank, Iraqi Finance Committee, Iraqi mainstream media, etc, on the proposed revenue neutral redenomination and are now trying to piggy-back selling Dinar onto something else most people also don't really understand to try and give their ailing sales pitches more credibility now the "my secret agent friend who has been wrong 1,743 times in the past says x" excuses are wearing thin and even long-term Dinar speculators are starting to see through the dishonest sales pitch.
Even if global bank reformation does happen it won't be reliant upon holding Dinar or any currency in particular (by design). Nor will it "come out of" one single country. (Hint: That's precisely why rumored "global" bank reform is called "global" in the first place - it's more like a "Basel IV" compliance thing than anything national). Something so radical as universal debt annulment or derivative de-leveraging would be global in nature and affect everyone in every country and every currency simultaneously regardless of currency held. Such massive bank reformation is no more specifically relevant to or dependent on Iraqi Dinar than Iranian Rial or Venezuelan Bolivar, Japanese Yen or Norwegian Krone.
Nor is it even remotely possible for Iraq to "save the world with oil" anyway since Iraq's economy ($143bn) even with oil exports makes up only 0.18% of the $80tn ($80,000bn) 2012 global economy and even smaller miniscule <0.02% percentage of the total global derivative liabilities (including OTC "off books" stuff). Iraq produces approx 3m average barrels of oil each day x 365 days = 1,095m barrels per year. Given a $100 oil price, that works out to $109bn oil revenue per year (approx 0.13% of the global economy per year). Now subtract 1/5th of that (gets consumed internally - oil power stations, industry, transportation, etc), and most of what's left of the rest goes on subsidizing the Iraqi government budget (currently at $100bn). That leaves Iraq with a 10% government spending deficit no better off than "worthless" America:-
"After months of wrangling, the Iraqi House of Representatives has finally approved the $100.5 billion budget for 2012, according to AKnews. It includes a projected deficit of $12.6 billion, the bulk of which will be covered by a surplus in the Development Fund of Iraq (DFI) account at the New York Federal Reserve"
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2012/02/27/iraq-approves-100-5bn-budget-for-2012/
In other words, the USA is having to subsidize Iraq by $10bn per year precisely because even with all the oil they're selling doesn't even cover domestic government expenditure. There is no "oil-backed global fund" in Iraq waiting to bail out the world and never has been. In fact Iraq's entire oil reserves - every drop of untapped future oil in the country - (141.3bn barrels priced at today's $100 still works out to only $14tn (which isn't even one single year's worth of America's economy or national debt). And again - that excludes the fact Iraq typically will burn about 1/5th internally for power stations, transportation, etc, ie, more like $11tn Iraqi exports from now until they run dry. Now take away the oil revenue that funds Iraq's government budget given the 129 years it would take for them to extract it at current 1.095bn barrels per year production rates, and it halves then halves again. (And that's assuming a replacement for oil won't be found for over 129 years or that Iraq's domestic population and government spending will remain frozen at 2012 levels right up to 2141AD...)
That needs repeating for those who haven't "got over" Iraq having oil yet (as do 97 other countries on Earth) - Every single drop of Iraqi oil reserves sold from now until 2140AD until the oil runs dry wouldn't even bail out Japan's debts today in 2012, let alone the planet or +$x00tn derivative bubble or interest between now and then...
Global bank reformation and universal debt restructuring / derivative cancellation may well happen at some point, but 1. That's a totally separate issue to Iraq's redenomination (and any other country's future redenomination - like Iran who are planning a 4-zero lop), and 2. Even if it were real, it obviously would affect all currencies & country's equally whether you hold them or not, and 3. It isn't being funded by deficit-running Iraq or oil at all, and 4. Debt annulment doesn't mean expanding the money supply by 1,000x and making everyone millionaires because that would just trigger off inflation again... If you give everyone $1m - what happens to the price of a loaf of bread? It shoots up because the value of each unit of currency gets devalued. Look at Zimbabwe - a nation of billionaires - some idiots are actually calling for that in Iraq and the USA because they're so fervently obsessed with calling themselves a "millionaire" they haven't got a clue about even basic economics or inflation...
Given your name "FactFinder", I'll be honest and say you've seriously got your work cut out if it just the facts you want, as so much of it is so wrapped up in wild conspiracy theories up to and including "reptilian shapeshifting Illuminati alien controllers are coming for you dude!". If you take the time to wade through the paranoid survivalist garbage that "prosperity fund forums" (like Fourwinds10) are infested with, and research the origin of them, you'll see the claim of "massive amounts of stashed European precious metals will back global settlement funds" can be traced back to 1990's NESARA. That's where all the "prosperity funds" and "global bank reformation" stuff came from, and it has never been about Iraq or oil at all - the only ones that are, are the recent ones which Dinar pumpers have rewritten to suit their own sales pitches on their own "closed" heavily-censored pumper forums.
Factfinder - "THE ‘SCAM’ DISTINCTION HAS BEEN MADE TO FOREWARN UNSUSPECTING NOVICES THAT THERE IS NO HARD AND FAST EVIDENCE IN THE PUBLIC ARENA INDICATING THE IRAQI DINAR IS A LUCRATIVE INVESTMENT OPTION!"
Absolutely true. There's nothing wrong whatsoever in acquiring a few Dinar and having a long-term bet on the Iraqi Stock Exchange, or maybe directly in Iraq' construction industry, etc, aiming for a realistic rate of return over 10 years. But the "get rick quick 100,000% overnight by sticking $1,000 of Dinar in your sock-drawer" mis-selling is pure bunk (and is in fact, a form of "advance fee fraud" targeting Forex amateurs). Hope this helps to understand where all the "prosperity fund" stuff came from though.
Excellent post Barry. Makes a lot of common sense and also fits in with what I've heard elsewhere on the same subject. It's virtually a given that we'll go through some massive changes in the way banking is done in future - that's the nature of the system, but Iraq is neither the source nor solution to "saving the world", that's just a convenient stage-prop used by Dinar salesmen who try and convince people they "must" be linked somehow (even when they aren't)...
WHEN WILL SOME FOLKS FINALLY LEARN THAT MOST ALL MONEY IS ELECTRONIC...AND DOES'NT EVEN EXIST...AT LEAST TO A POINT!...OR AT LEAST IF IT WAS ALL HELD ACCOUNTABLE, AND WE WOULD'NT BE WHERE WE ARE TODAY MONETARILY, SERIOUSLY!...THERE IS NO WAY TO UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS THE WAY THAT SOME WANT US TO...EVEN IF THEY FILL UP A THOUSAND LIBRARIES WITH THEORIES...LET'S PUT IT LIKE THIS.."IT IS WHAT IT IS"...AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT IS...OR WHAT IT WILL BE...UNTIL IT'S OVER!..IF ANYONE HAD ALL OF THE ANSWERS...FIRST OF ALL, THEY WOULD'NT EVEN BE ON HERE WRITING, SECOND OF ALL..."THEY WOULD LITERALLY OWN THE WORLD"...AND THIRDLY...ANYONE PRIVY TO ANY INFORMATION AS PER WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, WOULD'NT EVEN BE LOOKING AT THINGS ON ANY OF OUR LEVELS!..EVERYONES SO-CALLED THEORIES, FACTS, ETC...ARE JUST A SHOT IN THE DARK...POSSIBLY IN LINE WITH STAR TREKS'S "DEEP SPACE 9" AT BEST!....LOL...
Children! Children!
I'm going to have to side with 4aprofit for a minute!
Barry's inaccurate and derogatory ramble on prosperity funds and global settlements neither disproves nor verifies anything other than his attitude. Disparaging information can be found on the internet regarding virtually any subject you can imagine.
It's time both sides relax and watch what is going to happen.
...Eliminating possibilities, based on prejudice, has never been the path to success.
I believe these naysayers have been paid a hefty sum, to stay at it like they have, trying to disprove something before the facts are there as per what will actually happen...why else would you fret, worry and write volumes regarding what "cant" happen...when no one actually knows what will happen?...Has anyone ever studied something this fervently, especially if they hated it so bad, as they must hate it, because anything good that comes about regarding this, they pounce, and its all stuff that has not been proven that they proclaim!...You tell them it's not over yet, "they never hear us", and then they scream again, that we are losers in their own way'...and that we never will make any money off of this..(THESE GUYS WILL NEVER, EVER...HELP ME, BY WARNING ME...OF WHAT I COULD LOSE, OR THAT I WILL LOSE, OR WHATEVER...AS I HAVE NOT YET, SO GO TELL SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT ANOTHER INVESTMENT THAT YOU THINK IS BAD)...
Factfinder - "Barry’s inaccurate and derogatory ramble on prosperity funds and global settlements neither disproves nor verifies anything "
Which statistics are inaccurate? I gave you facts on Iraq's economy, budget, deficit and oil. Are you saying these are false? Are you disputing Iraq's oil production figures, budget deficit, etc? Maybe you should step forward and provide the "correct" ones then? I suggest you reread my post again FactFinder. I actually said to you in advance that there were little facts on the ground about them and simply gave background information on their recent "offshoots" who've modified the original theory to fit their own biased agenda's. The "derogatory ramble" comes from simply pointing out that modern variations of it being wrapped up in half a dozen other conspiracies, which is absolutely true. You only have to look at the largest "prosperity intel" sites to see that in 5 seconds flat (Fourwinds10, Nesaranewsblogspot, etc). Just because pointing that out comes across as "disparaging" (to you) doesn't mean pointing out the obvious is "inaccurate". (And if you didn't want people to reply to you - then why did you bring it up?) Do space aliens exist? I've no idea - they might well do. Is there a mass stash of gold bullion in Europe in a "Saint Germain Global Trust" with over 200 years of interest accrued? Again - I don't know - but neither of them has anything to do with serious investing in Iraq (nor did they originate out of Iraq) which is what this board (and my post) was about...
Factfinder - "I’m going to have to side with 4aprofit for a minute!"
4aprofit keeps talking about the "prosperity packages" related to the "RV" being Iraq-centric and "backed by Iraqi oil" which is false (which was the whole point of my post - I'm not saying that major global banking changes won't happen at some point, but rather that claimed "prosperity funds" have nothing to do with (not originated with) debt-ridden Iraq "saving the world" on less than $100bn annual oil sales (most of which is used to pay for its own domestic $100bn budget) per year - which should be obvious to anyone with 5th grade maths. $100bn oil revenue minus almost the same in Iraqi govt budget expenditure leaves Iraq with less than $10bn per year to somehow "save" a $80,000bn global economy and multi $x00,000bn derivative bubble... This isn't a "difference of opinion" - it's plain and simply fact and basic mathematics.
As for "attitude", it's not me permanently yelling every word of every post in all caps, calling people childish "retard" insults every 5 minutes or telling people what they can or cannot post. Nor is it me restarting the argument every single day. If you want a serious sense of perspective, the last time I posted (before yesterday) was Sept 23rd - a fortnight ago. Since that last post of mine, 4aprofit posted no less than 15 posts. If you want the debate and daily factless, obsessive posts to end, you're simply talking to the wrong person. 😉 Have a good day, sir.
Factfinder, Barry is actually spot on. I went through the same thing a while ago researching them myself (and unlike most people here I've actually spent years in Iraq), and they do all indeed stem from (or are offshoots of) NESARA conspiracy (National Security And Reformation Act - which was supposed to be secretly implemented back in 2001 and the "other" NESARA ("National Economy Stabilization and Recovery Act") is the "fake overlay". This is where everything started. If you've only just discovered talk of "prosperity funds" on Dinar forums in the past few years, then you won't have been around long enough to fully comprehend the origin of it, but I saw and heard the same stuff on the net 10-15 years ago back when there was no Dinar hype (or even Dinar forums) or "Restore America" stuff started hijacking and rewriting it for their own "causes". Since then, no less than three groups of people have basically plagiarized most of the original conspiracy, and rewritten parts for their own agenda:-
1. Dinar pumpers. Dinar pumpers have been twisting things around so that an Iraqi "RV" would "bail out" the world. Of course it wouldn't as has been repeatedly described previously (including yourself). If the Dinar leapt up 1,000x fold in value in real-terms vs every other currency, they'd just be making it 1,000x more expensive for everyone on the planet to do business with Iraq, and it would have the same international effect as if the Dinar remained stagnant and everyone else devalued their currency's by 1,000x! As Barry also correctly said - even at 3m barrels of oil sold per day, Iraq are still running a 10-12% budget deficit after paying for their own government spending (no different to Iran which has also massively devalued its currency via overprinting). Iraq doesn't have any "hidden funds" at all - what they export now is what they get and they spend almost as much as they earn, and the only thing "backing" the Dinar is about $70bn of foreign reserves...
2. Truthers As Barry correctly points out, "disclosure" and "truther" groups have adapted and modified it to their own agenda. "Good aliens / "Galactic Federation of Light" are providing most of the gold to combat the evil negative reptilian aliens who've ruled Earth since they destroyed Atlantis". You call that "disparaging" to point that stuff out being linked to prosperity funds - but that is literally what they say and believe on several "prosperity fund" sites. Fourwinds, nesaranews, GalacticRoundTable, Benjamin Fulford, Alex Jones, etc - the list of people claiming to be "in the know" is endless (and they all regularly contradict each other). One example of many from of the leading "prosperity fund intel" hub sites:-
http://nesaranews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/etseds-earth-stabilization-survival.html
3. TRAP / RuSA "The Restore America Plan". Remember that guy Tim Turner who declared himself president of the USA a while back? And his friends like "Sam Kennedy" (his real name is Richard Unger - he can't even be honest about that!) The TRAP website set up by Clive Boustred (who scammed people out of thousands of dollars with his "Coppercard" ruse and lied about his South African military service)?... They basically rewrote and invented their own fictional version of NESARA and "prosperity funds" (whose story changed month by month) so that hero "president" Tim would arrest all those Governors and "free" America, etc. Back in the real world, Tim Turner is currently being pursued for fraud for selling false information on how to get out of paying your mortgage and has even been charged which both tax fraud and had his own property foreclosed on!
If you think that's inaccurate and you have more accurate information, please go ahead and post it, because everything Barry said about "prosperity funds" being wrapped up in multi-layered alien / "paranoid survivalist" conspiracies / fake "patriot" groups is absolutely spot on in my experience of thoroughly researching this stuff for over 3 years elsewhere (both before and after it became "popular" as yet another "faith based 'investment'") on other completely different sites, and this is very highly visible across a number of "prosperity fund" and "truther" sites!
The original "Saint Germain Prosperity Fund Trust" believe that wealthy European royalties rebelled against their "Reptilian Illuminati masters" and hid some gold which has swelled to "40 zeroes worth of compound interest over centuries" and is under the protection of "Ascended Master Saint Germain". This is the prosperity fund's conspiracy's true early origin, and Barry is right about that (whether you want to believe it or not). Everything else ("Iraq saving the world", "TRAP/RuSA" (The Restore America Plan / Republic for the United States of America), etc), are just later plagiarized "modifications" of that rewritten to suit their respective target audiences.
Besides all of the other things that may or may not be going on, and/or whether some of these things are tied to the Dinar or not, I dont know, but as per the Dinar itself, one could write volumes of theories...good or bad ones...but until it is actually over...no one knows what will actually happen...CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME?...HELLO, HELLO, HELLO...IS ANYBODY HOME?....LOL...
I'm not here to bring anyone 'up to speed'. ...But it is obvious that Barry and Bob got on the train long after it had started to rust up!
Sit back and let things happen as they will. ...There isn't an ordinary soul around that can sort through this maze and spot the 'real' truth!
LOL... typical dinarian retorts.
"You wrong, but I'm not telling you how you are wrong" and "no one knows"
You're right Stew, no one knows!
It all just has to end with an "LOL" with some of these guys...because how else can you actually judge something before it actually happens...I mean, give me a break, these guys are acting like "know it alls", and even seemingly have the "future figured out", but are worrying over this, and continually writing about what cant happen!...WOW!...That calls for nothing but a big . . . L O L ! ! !
I wasn't holding my breath anyway Stew 🙂 Same tired old duplicity of "Let's talk about x" followed by stupid "Why are you talking about x? Let's wait and see! Shut up and wait! Shut up I tell you, SHUT UP!!!!". If they don't want to talk about it, then why the hell bring the subject up and invite comment on it over and over?
What's funniest of all is that despite calls for "let it be", they're the ones who keep restarting the debate after everyone else stops (I didn't a thing post for two weeks), then they start crying they eyes out again when people respond to them with facts and debate that takes them out of their comfort zones. It'll be the same if we all stopped posting now - silence for another 2 weeks, then they'll restart the argument again and then whine "Stop posting, let it be dude" to anyone who replies and disagrees with them even though they're the ones churning out most of the posts over 9 pages... Two-faced hypocrites to the core.
FACTS presented...my ARSE!!!...LOL AGAIN!!!...
!!!
Here is one fact that is undeniable!
SLANDER, INNUENDO, AND OPINIONS ARE NOT FACTS!
....Even if supporting positive evidence is slim to none!
I can't wait. We are all going to be so totally rich.... LOL
Barry (and others), I appreciate the time you've put into explaining the matter in a way an at least half-intelligent lay person like myself can reiterate in simpler terms.
My Grandmother has gotten heavily into these Dinars thinking they will give her some kind of golden retirement, a payback for the poor turn others have done her financially. I have been trying to tell her that putting money into these things (Im just an artist not an expert here) may be fine for a long term haul if you expect some small gains at the risk of losses.
But when I try to explain these are not a pie in the sky solution.. that how could someone who put even 100m into these expect to get billions and billions back for doing nothing at all? Great fortunes are made and lost through hard intelligent work, and a 50% gain is celebrated... a 10000% gain for nothing is the selling of deceit.
Its been hard to explain this and be convincing, because of my own career path. The kind of knowledge you are giving me, is knowledge I can use to help protect my octogenarian Grandmother from unscrupulous people without any kind of moral compass.
Thank you for taking the time to write what you have, hopefully I can use it to better educate and arm myself to help her make responsible choices.
Thanks for your comments Elah. I'm not trying to upset or put anyone down, just explaining how the system works. In the short-term the truth will cause some upset / anguish / anger / frustration for some desperate people who've pinned all their hopes on it and got so wrapped up in it they spend all day every day hunched over their computers looking for "intel" and see anything other than what they want to hear as a "threat" or "personal attack", but I believe honesty is the best policy and that in the long term most people will move beyond being upset / angry into a more positive "OK, that was a mistake, let's find something that does work" frame of mind, instead of clinging to it almost like a drug addiction looking for another "feel-good fix" or cult following long beyond the point where its healthy to simply "have a dream" or "think positively". Hope things work out for you and your family. All the best!
Everyone I am an actual currency trader. The Dinar will not increase to 1,000 times its current valuation against other currencies. This is absurd. In the foreign exchange market every currency is read with another as a pair. An easy example would read EUR/USD - buying this pair means that your predicting the euro will rise against the Dollar, likewise selling this pair means the Dollar will appreciate against the Euro. The Dinar paired to the USD would be classified as "an Exotic currency pair" like USD/MXN the Dollar against the Mexican Peso. Trades very rarely trade these pairs as the returns are very small, many even the most reputable brokers don't have them available, and there movements fluctuate at high rates like .50cents a day! This is considered depending on the pair to be an ultra extreme move. Since exotics move so much (not a 1,000 like you guys think but .50 again depending on the pair). The Exotic pairs only pay 2% of a normal "Major pair" like AUD/USD which is the Australian dollar vs the USD. On a major currency related pair such as the pound or euro or usd a massive move is .01-.02 cents per day. That's right if I make 2cents on a trade it is a massive move. Now I've tried giving you all a very poor quick lesson on currency so you could understand the next part. If the Dinar increases anywhere near 1,000times current value or dropping 0s whatever you think the answer to professionals is clear... No. This is impossible as Iraq would immediately become a world power holding as much forex power as the United States or any other major. This is simply not the way it works. I'm very sorry to tell anyone who bought a large some of Dinar and actually thought it would turn into a million+ USD in a couple years. I AM NOT saying that the Dinar cannot appreciate in a higher term of value but in a practical sense it would take a very very long time for a move like that to happen. This is difficult to explain but I guess just take my word for it. In retail trading (private currency traders, just regular people not making huge amounts but living pretty well) leverage in the United States is 50:1 that means 200USD can open a 10,000 dollar position which allows you to profit from these very small movements and a trader keeps their deposit per trade say its 200 or 2000 whatever size position your opening. A 10k lot or 200 deposit would equal 10,000,000 usd of profit If they were betting the dollar and dinar to parity. Their are millions of retail traders. So aside from the Country of Iraq becoming a world power and exceptionally wealthy by their own choice ( think of the countries letting this happen its insanity) every retail trader who trades this pair would be a billionaire as generally they would open a trade much larger than 10k I generally open between 1-5stardard lots which is 100k so I would infact make 100,000,000 usd from what is still considered a very small trade. This is not how it works you cannot just put up 2,000 dollars and get 100,000,000 dollars. Iraq doesn't have this ability. So in conclusion if you invested a couple grand into dinar hang onto it it maybe one day you'll get a fair return. If you dumped you life savings into it cash out and move to something else.
In my opinion, and I could be wrong...but I see them letting the Iraqi Dinar fall a little here lately off and on..(actually I like it, and think it is a good sign)...as per being a "controlled and contrived event"...no different than the "artificially controlled rate" of the Iraq Dinar for the last appx. 3 years or so...after the dinar climbed upwards for the first 7 years or so....(and this was while they were nowhere near as stabilized, while now, companies worldwide are moving in)..Think about it...if the dinar were to be going up...even a little at all...at anytime, especially as we possbily near the end of this ride..(if we actually are)...it would be a sign that it would be a good investment possibly...at least to some...and would be in line with, and match all the progress happening over there monetarily..(and there has been investments for oil and infrastructure in the trillions of dollars at that)...this IMO...is the perfect smokescreen to deter speculators, and to smoke out the ones that are contemplating this as an investment...and it even gets some to sell...For Iraq, IMO...the plan could'nt be working any better...As another point of view...With everything happening in Iraq, and nothing happening in the U.S. for the most part...which currency would it seem most likely should be going up instead of down...but the opposite is occurring...so go figure..in other words, the entire world is moving into Iraq, and it is going to continue using a worthless currency?...really?...all while being pegged to a worthless dollar?...or supposedly?...then we have a worthless dollar, which gains ground against a currency that we are pegged to..intentionally?...also, if the U.S. thought that the dinar were to never have a better vaue...(and might even possibly be dragging the dollar down)...then why have we not unpegged from the worthless dinar?...(but instead, we keep sending people over there, even regarding issues in their monetary system) ...All I can say..is there must be plans for a return on our investment over there, and an eventual rise to the Iraqi Dinar...or all of these scenarios simply would'nt exist...(as they simply just dont have to)...like I said..it is all a "controled and contrived event"...IMO..to keep a balance in the plan, until it is finalized...we will see...
Dude... after 4 or 5 years of your wacky theories being wrong, why can't you just admit that you have absolutely no clue how currencies work?
Seriously, you just claimed the dollar is pegged to the dinar. You’re embarrassing yourself.
You still don’t understand a peg which is one of the most basic of fundamentals.
Wow!...So just tell me then, who was primarily instrumental in the new currency, called the "New Iraqi Dinar", that the U.S. predominently helped put in place in 2003-4...who do you think initiated the PLAN....Haiti?...lol...
Also, I guess you also dont know what type currency, and from country, is being used a lot on the streets in Iraq, since the war started!..it's U.S. Dollars!...Bingo!..When you figure out why it's not another currency being used...you may understand what part the U.S. plays in this?...Maybe?...
The US dollar isn't pegged to anything. It's a free floating currency. The dinar is pegged to the dollar. The only change in the exchange rate with the USD/IQD pairing is in the market price within Iraq. This is where so many dinarians and gurus get confused. While the market price has fluctuated considerably, the official value of the IQD has only changed a third of 1 percent since 2009. Yes, the USD is used in Iraq, because they needed a currency to use when we removed Saddam and the Saddam notes. But Iraq is hardly alone in their use of the USD. Wikipedia has a list of countries that use the USD. That doesn't mean that their currencies are going to be revalued or that anybody will get rich from holding those currencies.
Whether directly or indirectly...there is a peg..and/or tie-in!...Or we would'nt be over there everytime Iraq let's out gas, trying to make sure that all is well monetarily!..And time will tell, as per who is really tied into all of this monetarily, and with what currency, after the finalization of it all!..At least hopefully?...It's not so much the micro-management of it all...as per most figuring this thing out, it simply cannot be done the way some illustrate it can be..as this is not a typical scenario that we are watching unfold.
The dollar is absolutely not directly pegged to the dinar, nor is it indirectly pegged to any remote way . Iraq and the dinar are a pimple on the rear of an elephant to the US.
What the heck does finalization mean??
On Oct 15th the new Iraqi dinar turned 9 years old. It is now in it’s 10th year as the official currency of Iraq and has been distributed physically and electronically to the staggering sum of 72 Trillion. Kids that started school that year are now in high school. Kids that were starting high school have now graduated college.
Dinar dealers and gurus have been indicted for fraud.
Iraq has sacked the Central Bank Governor.
They are still under a Stand By Arrangement with the IMF. SBAs are for poor countries, not ones about to do a mythical 100,000% RV. That is why it is sometimes referred to as a program rate. The SBA with the IMF is a program. It’s that simple, it’s not some big conspiracy holding back the value of the dinar by a factor of 1000 or more.
You guys have been coming up with nonsense for years to explain why this big RV hasn’t happened yet.
The simple hard cold facts are that once the money supply numbers were discovered, which was back in 2006, maybe earlier for others, later for some, and those numbers were compared to the other countries of the world, it became painfully obvious that the dinar is fairly priced where it is. The IMF has even stated the dinar is fairly priced at it’s current level. What more do you need?
Finalize?? How does a currency finalize??
Blah, blah, blah...there are no "cold hard" facts...the facts will be when it is all over, said and done...Who's figures are correct?...who's are'nt?...lol...
Also, many are terrified over Iraq's currency...while long term holders have had gains...my dollars have'nt...at all!..so, go figure..maybe just go fishing!...It might serve you better to daydream, while worrying over something that is'nt something to worry over!..lol.....
Question for you profit.
Iraq currently has a money supply of 72 trillion dinar. Worth $.00086 each for a sum total of $61.75 Billion.
Now imagine for a minute that Iraq had the same exact $61.75 Billion money supply, but instead of 72 trillion it was 72 billion dinar worth $.86 each. It’s the same exact money supply, just configured differently.
Would you and the other gurus be trying to convince people that the dinar worth $.86 was severely undervalued and any day now should be revalued to $860 per dinar?
Do not worry over how something materializes...just stay awake and watch...it may amaze you...once it is all over...then you can throw all the theories away...and enjoy life once more!..lol...
LOL. You're being trolled, Stew. Same pattern every single time if you look back at his posting history:-
1. He makes blatantly stupid outrageous claims based upon something he read that he wants to believe in. "The Dollar is pegged to the Dinar!", "China is backing the Dinar!", "Sulphur commodities are backing the Dinar!", "Only the USA has a fiat currency!", "Iraq will RV in Sept 2012!", (remember "Dr. Todd"? LOL), etc.
2. Multiple people correct him with the truth which he puts an active effort into ignoring. All facts must be "unwelcome dumper propaganda" even when they come from Iraq, IMF, World Bank, or is basic junior school level maths that even 8 year old children manage to get right.
3. First he back-pedals with gibberish Orwellian double-speak that's meaningless outside his own head "a tie-in is a peg but not a peg!", "a redenomination is a redenomination but not a redenomination!"
4. Then when that fails he runs away shouting "no-one can possibly know", "there are no such things as facts - ever - 1+1 can equal 3 or 1,000 if you believe it. Maths doesn't exist because I'm crap at it. Beliefs always trump truth!", "If I don't understand something, then neither can you even if you do it for a living!" over his shoulder to try and get the last word in at any cost without actually debating or as a substitute for producing even one single fact whatsoever... (Mostly out of fear of being wrong yet prideful enough to not admit it).
5. When 4 fails, he spams off about 12 posts per day filled with appeals for emotional tribute. Variants of "Go on say you could be wrong when you claim 1,000 divided by 1,000 = 1. Say it. Go on - say that my answer of 1,000 or 3 or 2.234234 is just as valid and has equal merit. Go on say it!" By this stage his posts are usually frantically YELLING IN ALL CAPS.
6. When 5 fails and he gets absolutely hammered with the truth and every single false claim / point he's made been debunked, resort to kiddie playground insults. "Retard" seems his most favorite and commonly used...
This late in the day it's clear that 4ap's either trolling or so badly brainwashed that a two-way grown-up debate is not only pointless but actually literally impossible... You only have to read some of the deluded cr*p he's written under the same name on other Dinar sites (dinarvets, investorsiraq, dinarrecaps, etc) to see that he's in a world of his own addicted to "truther" & conspiracy sites (that contain anything and everything but the truth...)
Kudos to FXTrader though for his excellent post above.
More blah, blah, blah...I just hate it that some of you are so worried about my investments...that have actually made money...Bottom Line...it's been a winner so far...you guys worry too much...seek therapy...either dump or buy dinars..lol....
OMG, Kev, that's spot on 🙂 LOL. You missed out "Whenever you talk to me, that means you're WORRIED. You are! You're really REALLY worried about me being a winner!" 😉