History’s lesson for the dinar

I used to think that rapid increases in Iraqi oil production would practically guarantee a significant strengthening of the dinar over the next ten years. Surprisingly, however, history suggests that this is far from a foregone conclusion.

While the Oil Ministry claims that Iraqi capacity will rise by 10 million barrels per day (mn bbl/d) to something like 12 mn bbl/d by the end of this decade, few analysts take this projection seriously. In fact, no country has ever achieved such a large incremental increase in a ten-year period. Historically, a recent study by the Energy Policy Research Foundation (available at http://www.eprinc.org/pdf/EPRINC-Iraq-FirstLook.pdf) found that Saudi Arabia came closest, with an increase of about 6 mn bbl/d (up 150%) from 1970 – 79, followed by Iran, which went from around 2 – 6 mn bbl/d from 1965 – 1974, and Russia, which raised production by some 4 mn bbl/d (68%) from 1998 – 2007.

But suppose for the sake of argument that Iraq was able to match these precedents and raised production from approximately 2 mn bbl/d at present to, say, 6 mn bbl/d by 2019. What would happen to the dinar if it followed a trajectory similar to the Saudi riyal, Iranian rial, or Russian ruble during the oil booms in those three countries?

Not much, as it turns out. If it’s like the riyal or the ruble, the dinar would actually depreciate in US dollar terms by 25% or 16%, respectively. And the rial appreciated by just 12% from 1965 – 1974. (See chart. As the indices are based on year-end US$/local currency exchange rates, increases/decreases in an index correspond to appreciation/depreciation against the dollar.)

The problem with the idea that increased oil production must be bullish for the dinar is that it is based on the assumption that nothing changes except the output of oil (what economists call a “ceteris paribus” assumption). In fact, however, many other things can be expected to change. In the case of a large country like Russia, for example, domestic demand for refined products may rise significantly as well so that exports don’t go up at the same pace as crude production volumes. In the Saudi and Iranian cases, oil booms led to import booms, with the result that demand for foreign exchange rose along with increased export earnings. There might also be scenarios in which an increasingly confiscatory taxation regime led to greater dollar demand due to capital flight. And of course exporting more barrels won’t necessarily lead to higher forex revenues during an oil-price slump.

History’s lesson for the dinar is that whether it strengthens or weakens over the next decade will depend not only on Iraq’s success in increasing oil production but also on the economic changes that this increased production induces. If Iraqi demand for imports and refined products were frozen for ten years at current levels, a 4 mn bbl/d production increase would be unambiguously dinar positive. But in a more realistic scenario, supply and demand for foreign exchange are likely to grow together, with the result that the exchange rate may not deviate dramatically from its current level.

600 Responses to History’s lesson for the dinar

  1. Stew 20th February 2011 at 12:28 #

    Dinar Daddy says... "This is MY way of being accountable and aware."
    He's covering his arse.

    Then he continues with this lie...
    "I wish to note that a “LOP” scenario, in the history of currency adjustments, has ONLY been implemented in the case of extreme, stagflation or hyper-inflation environments."

    I posted on Dinar Daddy's board before he closed all comments. I've shown him the lop studies that specifically say that it is better if countries wait until inflation is under control before lopping. Ang gives example of countries that did just that. Yet he along with all the other guru/pumpers continue to push this lie. WHY? It sells dinars.

  2. brit 20th February 2011 at 13:11 #

    Mark you are very incorrect that this would have anything whatsoever to do with insider trading. We are not dealing with securities, as your Martha Stewart example pertained to. Again, there is NO INSIDER TRADING when dealing with currency.

    In regards to the spread, the best dinar dealer spread exchange rate out there at the moment is Dinar Banker. It has been stated several times that their exchange fees will be $150 per transaction, not the $150 per million that Ali will charge. Since what is expected to occur is a lop - that would be a very expensive transaction through Ali.

    In regards to it being a scam, it is not the currency itself that is the scam. It is the manner in which some people promote the sale. People that are promising buyers a huge ROI are scamming people. Most dinar dealers promote their dinar in, what most would consider, a less than ethical manner, however not illegal. It is one thing to state previous values and omit the differences in their economy between then and now, however it is something completely different to lie and say when it revalues that they will be millionaires by having a relatively small number of dinar.

  3. Government Connected 21st February 2011 at 10:39 #

    This will give you all an idea of what is really going on in Iraq, and just how deep into this, the US government is involved.

    February 18, 2011

    Treasury Notes

    In support of President Obama’s goal for a sovereign, stable, and self-reliant Iraq, I was in Baghdad this week for meetings with senior government officials, parliamentarians, regulators and banking sector leaders on key economic challenges facing Iraq’s leadership. My discussions focused on priorities facing the new government, including Iraq’s ability to use its oil resources to encourage economic growth and create opportunities for the Iraqi people and better integrating Iraq into the global economy.

    On Sunday, Deputy Prime Minister Shaways and I co-chaired a meeting of the Iraq-U.S. Economics and Energy Joint Coordination Committee (JCC), attended by a broad range of U.S. and Iraqi government officials as well as Central Bank Governor Shabibi. The JCC was established under the U.S.-Iraq Strategic Framework Agreement, which lays out areas of cooperation in economic, political and security spheres and provides both governments with a platform to work closely on issues of mutual concern. At Sunday’s meeting, I reaffirmed the commitment of the United States to support Iraqi efforts to develop the economy across a wide range of issues, including public financial management, trade and investment, private sector development, and oil and gas.

    While in Baghdad, I emphasized the need for financial sector reforms to create a modern, competitive and vibrant private sector that meets international standards, to help attract foreign investment in Iraq. I heard from Iraq’s leadership on the steps they are planning to take to improve Iraq’s investment climate, reduce corruption, increase transparency and strengthen the non-oil sectors of the economy. Over dinner, Finance Minister Issawi and I weighed various approaches to achieving his goals for Iraq’s economic agenda for the coming months and years, and resolved to enhance the relationship between Treasury’s technical assistance advisors in Baghdad with their Finance Ministry counterparts.

    Key to creating and maintaining a globally competitive banking sector is an independent central bank. I reinforced the importance of maintaining the Central Bank’s independence, and congratulated Governor Shabibi on the progress the Central Bank has made in reducing inflation and maintaining a stable currency. I also talked about ways to improve joint efforts by the government and the Central Bank to strengthen banking supervision and to reduce the risk of abuse of the financial sector by illicit actors.

    Deputy Secretary Wolin and Minister of Finance Rafi Al-Issawi

    Iraq’s budget was also core to my discussions. I discussed with Finance Minister Issawi and other officials a prudent 2011 budget that will allow the government to effectively spend resources on investment projects that are needed to enhance the provision of basic services such as electricity, water and social services, including health and education.

    I also heard from senior government officials on their efforts to establish a robust successor arrangement to the Development Fund for Iraq so that Iraq can transparently and effectively manage its oil resources. Iraq has been working closely with the IMF and World Bank on budget and financial sector issues, and I strongly encouraged such cooperation going forward to help provide expertise and resources where they are most needed.

    Treasury has nearly a dozen staff in Baghdad – one of our largest teams anywhere in the world – providing technical assistance to help Iraq create a stable macroeconomic environment and build a solid foundation for economic growth. My meetings were extremely productive and helped to strengthen Treasury’s relationship with Iraqi leadership on key economic issues as part of the Strategic Framework Agreement.

    The Obama Administration is committed to a sovereign, stable, and self-sufficient Iraq and intends to remain a key partner of the Iraqi people and government across a full range of issues. I look forward to strengthening Treasury’s partnership with Iraq’s leadership toward that end.

    Neal Wolin is Deputy Secretary of the Treasury
    Posted in: International


  4. Stew 21st February 2011 at 15:31 #

    Standard stuff. No surprises. Certainly nothing that would lead one to believe a 100,000% increase is in the works. He even states... "congratulated Governor Shabibi on the progress the Central Bank has made in reducing inflation and maintaining a stable currency"
    If a 100,000% increase was on tap, would they be talking about a stable rate?

  5. Government Connected 21st February 2011 at 19:59 #

    When the UN makes operational rate changes, they are not announced ahead of time. Leaking information like that would create mass chaos. There is something very big going on in regards to the IQD, and I believe we will see this start to unfold by the end of this month. I'm NOT saying an RV is coming, but there will be a big event in Iraq. Now, we have to hope that the leadership of that country can get the final pieces of the government settled so their people can get working towards a better life.

  6. Brit 22nd February 2011 at 00:44 #

    Stew, it's just like the forums where every little article is disected to find some meaning that has to do with the currency value. Not every article is accurate for one, and secondly, not everything under the sun of Iraq has to do with their currency value.

  7. Stew 22nd February 2011 at 09:56 #

    You sure have started to alter your words. You came out pretty bold with this:
    "As I work for the IMF in New York, I can verify the authenticity of this news document, and can further validate the plan for the Iraqi government to increase the value of the IQD without any sort of LOP. Despite what Stew has been claiming, the currency value of the IQD was artificially deflated by the IMF, in conjunction with the UN. The stated goal is to return the IQD to a value of at minimum, on par with the dollar."

    Now you are parsing your words... Good pumper tactic.

  8. Government Connected 23rd February 2011 at 07:55 #

    You must need a reminder of the meaning of the word pumper. Going back through this entire string of posts from day 1, please show me a single post from anyone who DIRECTLY represents a dinar dealer or site. Your CARELESS use of this term, represents your very narrow mental capability. You can't think outside the box, but parrot the very common man. You think you are so smart with your ability to paste and copy links from the CBI website, that any functional, mentally handicapped person or trained circus monkey could do. I'd suggest going back to the JC you got your AA degree from, and ask for an immeditae refund.

    The bigger picture, with what is going on behind the scenes that you, nor any person without the proper security clearance would have access too, would cause you to cry in your Wheaties.

    Stew, when this all comes to a conclusion, you are going to look like a supreme fool for the terrible advise you have given to people who were looking for guidance and direction.

    Keep a very close eye on the news out of Iraq in the next 2-3 days. There is much going on in Iraq that has a direct bearing on the government, their budget and their currency.

  9. Stew 23rd February 2011 at 09:43 #

    That’s a hilarious post coming from a guy who pretends to be an ex military, multi businesses, multi degrees, multi millionaire with CBI connections… and then switches names and pretends to be a super educated IMF employee who has met the head of the CBI a number of times.
    You are an assclown and everyone knows it. That you just ignore it and continue to post your made up bullcrap in the face of humiliation proves beyond a shadow of doubt that you are a pumper. I’m waiting for your lawsuit genius. Bring it on… please. Make my day.
    Why does it bother you to be known as a pumper of something you claim will make people millions? You should be proud to be pumping such a thing.
    Unless of course… you are a lying sac o crap, then it’s a bad thing.

  10. Stew 23rd February 2011 at 11:33 #

    Another lying poser will expose himself tonight on Dinar Daddy’s radio show. Some clown claiming to be “former VP for JP Morgan Chase in charge of their foreign currency desk” will be his guest. That should be entertaining to listen to.
    Funny… that posing scammer clown sounds a lot like the poser scamming clown on we have on this board.
    Could it be the same guy posting/posing here??

  11. Government Connected 23rd February 2011 at 11:39 #

    That would be Rudy Cohen, whom I know personally. That man has more integrity in his pinky, than you do in your miserable, pathetic, worthless life! You really are a piece of work. You sure are a brave, tough guy behind your moms coat tails, and a computer screen. I'll bet she gets really tired of changing your panties. Now, run along junior and go play in your sand box, and leave this forum to the grown ups.

  12. Stew 23rd February 2011 at 12:30 #

    You are truely an idiot. You didn't get the memo I guess.
    The pumpers... you guys... screwed up and started using the name Rudy Cohen... but for some reason he signs his name Coenen.
    You know him personally but don't even know his last name.
    You are lying scamming pond scum. I will meet you anytime you want. I already offered to bet you $100k on the outcome of this and you wimped out.

    Check out his signature at the bottom. Frank uses Cohen at the top... but he uses the name Coenen. LOLOL
    Idiots... It's hard to keep lies straight.
    Rudy, whatever his last name is today, is a lying scammer just like you... might even be you.

  13. LZ 23rd February 2011 at 15:16 #

    You are cracking me up. Anything posted on KTFM is aimed at stupid , brainwashed middle American religious suckers who let Frank and his crew use religion , God or whatever works to keep the idiots coming back to hear them say that the Iraqi politicians are slackers and just too plain lazy to get the RV done. BUT...March 1 is the day!!! better get more dinar so you can help others in Gods blessing.

  14. LZ 23rd February 2011 at 15:20 #

    This is a real good one. Okie thinks they will RV this week to halt any protests in Iraq'


  15. Brit 23rd February 2011 at 21:06 #

    LZ, Okie has also claimed over and over that his intel is a few days ahead of when it will come out. In that post he claims Obama just appointed 2 Muslims to positions in the Department of Homeland Security. That was almost 2 YEARS AGO! One in April '09 and the other in June '09.

    When people realize that dinar dealers can make millions of dollars PER MONTH they might realize that the rumor mill is just keeping this cash cow going for those selling dinars by consistently bringing in new customers and giving avenues of making money from those that operate some of the websites that promote the sale or rumors of a big RV.

  16. Robbie 24th February 2011 at 08:01 #

    This is an excerpt of an email that I got from someone in Franks group. The rest of the email is same ole stuff.

    "CNN says this morning that the IQD is about to RV. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! Nope. CAN I HAVE THE LINK FRANK? Nope. Join me tomorrow as we show you 3,500 contracts that have just been paid by the GOI and we will explain this paragraph. "

    Now if CNN did indeed say that, why not just provide the link to the faithful followers and call it a day? I searched CNN and the last article I could find on the IQD was in Aug of 2010 about a robbery. There is a special place for people who use God as a front man to trick others, many of them are elderly with fixed incomes.

  17. James 25th February 2011 at 19:42 #

    Not sure if my last post showed up but have a look at this guys really cool


  18. LZ 26th February 2011 at 07:04 #

    It seems Frank doesnt have much to post lately.I think he is running out of BS and sticking with the prayer schtick. Who would buy dinar now?

  19. Stew 5th March 2011 at 20:13 #

    Ok... read this.
    "Fear has also extended to the central bank, where officials said they worried that Mr. Maliki would now have the power to order the institution to print money to cover Iraq’s growing budget deficits. Such a move would weaken the value of Iraq’s anemic currency and lead to rapid inflation."

    Now... If the Iraqi dinar were undervalued 100,000 to 300,000 percent as the scammers keep claiming... why in the heck would such a concern even exist?

  20. richie chop 7th March 2011 at 11:13 #

    rudy....and integrety in same sentence..HA!...he's a FRAUD/LIAR FAKE..!!!!
    Surprsed he still poke'n his head in and atta places....look him up..and u will see what the FACTS I and others have found about your personal Friend/Plagerizer/less the one year in USMC.... when he claimes hes a decorated war Vet AND in USMC for 13 years....BELIEVE NOTHING HIM OR ANY OF THEM TELL YOU..FICTION IS ALL YOU GET IN RETURN..that goes with Frank 26 and his Christian Loan Scam and yes USES..and recieve the results he was looking for from 'CHRISTIANS"..mention God /Prayer and bible verses and he hooks them one by one...IDIOTS...EVERY WHERE...

  21. LZ 8th March 2011 at 16:28 #

    GOV CONNECTED.... What do you have to say now?

  22. Stew 8th March 2011 at 18:06 #

    LOL... GovConn/JC is a boob. He didn't even know Rudy's last name is Coenen. He used the name Cohen that many pumpers have mistakenly used. Yet he knows him personally. LOL... too funny man.
    Good Stuff Richie Chop... I noticed he claimed to have a 12 year career in the USMC. Then with the other stuff he claims, degrees, jobs... none of it added up. He would have had to be going to school the whole time he was in the Marines to accomplish all the other stuff he claims. I'm willing to bet he never worked for JP Morgan Chase... if he did it was just as some low level trader.
    Here’s a profile of the guy.

    The companies he claims to be President of seem to not even exist.
    Wouldn't he also mention his past JP Morgan Chase job?

  23. Stamp 29th March 2011 at 19:26 #

    No more comments from 'Government Connected'?

  24. Toi Toi 5th May 2011 at 10:22 #

    Heya i am for the first time here. I found this board and I find It truly useful & it helped me out a lot. I hope to give something back and aid others like you aided me.

  25. Doug 15th July 2011 at 21:06 #

    I agree that there are MANY pumpers out there selling dinar. Also, that at first glance there is now way in &^%$ that there could be any kind of HUGE return on the IQD. However, the world is facing a financial crisis the likes of which they have never seen.

    If the TRUE debt of governments around the world (especially the US) were known, I would expect riots like we are seeing in Egypt, and Libya everywhere.

    If the drug companies didn't have 60% of US citizens zoned out on meds (not including the 20% or more hyped up on illegal drugs), I would expect we would have riots now!

    If they don't have some hyped up paper money scheme like the world has never seen before lined up, what else do they have? Give more money to the banks and see if that will help? Been there, done that.

    It humors me when I hear fiat currency promoters and politicians talking about moral hazard in connection with money!!! WHAT? These guys ran out of morals decades ago. If you think for one minute that the boys behind the FED and other Central bank mafia families would choose to help out average folks, you must be living in a dream.

    However, their whole house of cards is about to fall, and it is going to take something BIG to fix it. There has been talk of stripping money away from the world's religions. Now the Fed wants to make it nearly impossible for anyone selling real estate in the US to offer owner financing. I guess the banks want that to dry up so they can get all the biz, even though they are not loaning money like they were supposed to with the TARP funds. Never did. I know of folks with good credit having trouble getting mortgages. The banks just don't want to take the risks.

    Yes, they have to come up with something, and it has to be BIG. Raising the debt ceiling is needed YES, but it is a temporary fix that will encourage more spending by our great politicians, that is all they know how to do.

    And the bottom line is, the new central bank in Iraq is owned by the same boys with dark suits who own the FED. They are not going to go away quietly. They want it ALL, and will probably get it. There main trick is to print more paper money, and that is Exactly what they are doing in Iraq. That is what they are doing in the "New" Sudan, and that is what they are wanting to do in Libya. Those are 2 of the few nations left that they don't yet control.

    SO, is a BIG RV out of the question? I don't think you can go by history on this one, cause again, we are treading water now, and the whole paper hanging game is about to go down unless they do something BIG. I would not put ANYTHING past them. One thing is for sure, they won't go away without a fight.

  26. Stew 16th July 2011 at 10:30 #

    Every... not some, not most... EVERY country that has deleted/raised/lopped zeros has done it basically the same exact way. A new currency is issued and ALL the old currency is exchanged. Iraq has stated they will do this and have even used the other countries as an example of what they will do.
    What's your explanation of that?

  27. Doug 16th July 2011 at 11:39 #

    Just as I said above, we are in unprecedented times and we may see something that has never been done before. At the very least, I could see folks doubling or tripling their money, even after the zeroes are lifted.

  28. Quad 16th July 2011 at 20:24 #

    My explanation of a LOP is this. They LOP, we sell, they feel it and if they don't let us exchange then that leads to a bigger problem. The idea they will LOP...there consequences of them doing that and it doesn't guarantee that they will have a brighter future (see russia). Look at japan, they have a high exchange rate to the dollar or South Korea they had a higher exchange rate to the dollar. Aside from the GCC or the Arabic Monetary Fund, I don't see as to why IRaq has to have a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the dollar immediately like everyone is saying. Appreciation over time is the only sensible solution because of the wealth in natural resources that they have and they are only three zeros down unlike turkey who was 6. No there will be no overnight RV but over time and as they issue/sell bonds and contract money and add frozen assets to their foreign reserves and the economy develops. Its very possible with a lot of work. I will remind you according to the IMF they started at 3500 to the dollar in the begining. So this is not a stretch at all. However if they want it fixed overnight then yes they will LOP and there will be a mass sell off by foreign investors. You can't argue with the speculation on this currency and the amount of people who bought this and the effect a LOP would have over their actions. It would hurt Iraq by so many selling at once which is why they won't do it. And for those that believe in the RV, this is also the same reason they would never do something so foolish! Why would they create a run on their own currency? Who will buy the dinar after it changes to a 1 to 1 rate LOP or RV? NOBODY!! Appreciation over time is the only play that is truly sustainable that fosters investment. A LOP DOESNT DO THAT!!

  29. Doug 17th July 2011 at 06:11 #

    If the IQD was at 1 on 1 with USD there would still be a LOT of investors who would buy! Since their currency used to be worth 3 times that amount. Not only that, but it would encourage investment in Iraq. Sure, there would be some that would sell and run, but there would be others that would hold out for more (just as in any trade).

    I agree that it will appreciate over time, but right now they MUST get on the world stage with an international currency. They have gone about as far as they can like it is. They need to go to the next level, and that means an internationally recognized currency. So whether they lop or not, they MUST have a world value. If the IQD is only good in Iraq, nobody benefits. They MUST move on at some point, and all indication is, that is coming sooner rather than later.

  30. Brit 21st July 2011 at 11:33 #

    Quad - South Korea was planning on a currency redenomination in 2004. They didn't do it because they still had other problems, and there was talks at the time of a unified east asian currency. It would have made no sense to replace a currency that was simply going to get replaced if that project moved forward.

    Doug, the problem is that nobody wants to compare the monetary system of Iraq now to the one that existed when they had a currency of value. The amount in circulation and GDP have a lot to do with it. Their M2 is roughly 59 trillion dinar, with 29 trillion dinar in physical currency either in the hands of the public or in the vaults of the various banks. That is over 1,000 times more currency than when the dinar actually held value. The dinar has not held a value of over $3 since the early 1980s.

    The problem is that currency speculators might buy if they suddenly valued the dinar at $1, but it would only be the ones that didn't know better. It would actually cause true investors to run to the hills because it is simply setting the economy up for absolute failure, which would mean that investors would be left holding the bag and lose what they put in, which as we all know is not their idea of a good investment.

    Look at global monetary levels, even at $1 right now the dinar would have more value in circulation than the US, Euro Zone, China, Britain and many more countries combined, with nothing to support it but a finite supply of oil.

  31. Stew 21st July 2011 at 13:46 #

    It's even worse than that Brit. All the countries in the world right now combined have currency in circulation worth about $5 Trillion. Like you stated, Iraq has about 30 Trillion dinar. A RV at $1 would give Iraq $30 trillion worth of dinar in circulation... that's 6 times more than the whole world right now.
    Currency is used to support an economy. Iraqs economy is currently about one tenth of one percent... so .1% of the worlds economy.
    So these pumpers have actually scammed people into believing that a country with .1% of the worlds economy is going to have 6 times more currency than the rest of the world combined... and that's just at $1... most pumpers are claiming 3. That would give them 18 times more currency than the whole world.
    There are no words in the english language to explain just how absurd that is.

  32. Doug 21st July 2011 at 17:00 #

    Brit, I don't think I ever posted that I expect the IQD to go to $3 without lifting the zeroes, or even a dollar for that matter. I'm simply saying that you can't compare this to ANY other time in history, because the world financial crisis is unlike ANY other time in history. There are similar times, but nothing to the extent we are seeing now.

    I am saying that Iraq WILL NOT move forward with a currency that is only good in country. If you can't walk into any FX department in any bank any where in the world, what good is it??? They WILL have to have an international currency to proceed with the rebuilding.

    Obviously you guys did not invest in any dinar. I agree, the pumpers out there are building folks expectation up more than they should be, but there is still going to be ones that make money on the play.

    Just this week in the USA today - they had this story & headline:

    "WASHINGTON — Foreign investment is beginning to pour into Iraq this year, fueled by a growing confidence in the country's stability."

    Strangely, the US is the least of the investors in Iraq.

    Also Brit, In 2004 South Korea's currency was a whole other ball game. It was international, it had just taken a beating! It's funny that you bring them up though, in the USA today article it had this to say about them:

    "He said Iraq's market is growing fast and that U.S. businesses risk missing opportunities. "If you keep waiting you are going to miss it," Alhassan said.

    South Korea was the largest foreign investor this year, representing 24% of the foreign money flowing into Iraq, according to the report."

    Things are happening! I still think IQD investors could double or triple or perhaps more their investment. When I bought mine it was selling for $700 per million. I can sell it for more than that right now. So, please don't tell folks they are crazy for investing in it. There are a TON of investors in the stock market who wish they had Something they could see instead of watching their money evaporate in 2008! Many of them (stock investors) got out late, and then missed the ride back up. The same will happen with this IQD investment, as it happens to traders (of anything you can trade) every day.

  33. Brit 25th July 2011 at 09:32 #

    Doug, please tell me where I stated anyone was crazy for buying the dinar? Oh, wait - I didn't.

    But I will state that the chances for an ROI on the dinar are lower now than they were several years ago. And the likelihood of taking a loss is greater now than it was because of any premiums paid in addition to exchange costs.

    First, South Korea got brought up as an example to Quad, not to you. Second, what does SK investing into Iraq have to do with SK's currency value?

    And your 'obviously' statement about not owning dinar is a bit off base because I do own dinar, and have for years. Just goes to show how much your insight is worth, IMO. But that doesn't mean that I am not going to call BS to BS that is going on with the dinar. Too many scammers have popped up and are spreading all kinds of lies about the dinar, and that is sickening.

    Iraq's dinar is not 'only good in country' by the way. I have had too many friends that have gone through the UAE & Kuwait in recent months to not have found out that it is exchanged there in the street and can be deposited in the banks and converted. There are also banks here in the US that will exchange the dinar into USD - that seems pretty international doesn't it?

    Iraq's currency is listed by several forex sites in the same manner as Kuwait, China, Saudi Arabia, etc - Exotic. That doesn't mean that it is not tradeable, it simply means that it doesn't trade much. Most likely because for the entire lifespan of the dinar it has had a fixed peg to another currency - the pound or the dollar. Why would people care about trading the dinar when they could trade the major that it is pegged against and not have as high of fees for doing so?

  34. Doug 25th July 2011 at 10:59 #


    Sorry that I have not kept up with you and no doubt what is an amazing life story. I stand corrected - you do have dinar - Great! (You may be sharper than I give you credit for)

    OK, so there is a bank in Kuwait that will exchange the dinar, and a couple perhaps in the US. The ones in the US do not have any International rate on the currency, it is just whatever someone is willing to buy or sell it for. This is a LONG way from an Internationally recognized currency!

    Then again, you probably believe everything you hear on Fox News is the God's honest truth.

    Also, your currency figures for the world supply of countries mentioned are off by SEVERAL TRILLION.

    If you think the 16 Trillion in loans recently uncovered by the first ever FED "audit" is the only thing they have not told the world about, then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. Believe the world's bankers if you want to (why would they lie to us right), I'll read between the lines and see closer to what is really going on.

    Again, I re-post my original statement, what we are seeing now is unprecedented in history. Similar things have happened, but NOTHING exactly like this, nor probably will ever happen again. Your dinar may well pay off more than you give it credit for.

    BTW, the GBP is fluctuating wildly against the IQD as I type this!

    Day's Range: 0.0522 - 0.0005

    So at the high end that would be 7 or 8 cents USD. I'd be one happy camper with that, and I think you would be too.

  35. Stew 25th July 2011 at 13:06 #

    That's a funny post coming from someone who seems to believe everything he reads on web sites designed to promote the sales of dinar. Sites that ban anyone who dares question the ridiculous lies and claims made.
    The idea being pushed on those sites that the dinar is going to be the vehicle which pulls the world out of it's economic troubles is preposterous.
    I’m sorry in advance… but only a complete imbecile would fall for that. These scammers have to be sitting back laughing their arses off at what they are getting people to believe.

  36. James 25th July 2011 at 13:15 #

    Not only laughting but making a ton of money doing it there is one site out there selling LLCs for like 2k hahahaha now thats funny but what isnt funny is that people are buying this crap this site has over 10k members and the last i heard he sold over 300 LLCs and thats prob low

    do the math on that one

    It really is sad that these people fall for this crap , I still believe that something good could happen but never ever believe this crap from these sites

    I got in to say hey if the boat comes in i wont miss it but dont want to miss it if you know what i mean

  37. Brit 25th July 2011 at 17:14 #

    Take a look at the actual chart of the currency fluctuation rather than simply reading the text, and your 'fluctuations' will disappear.. LMAO

    Do you have anything that shows that the $16 trillion is not actually accounted for in the world currency level statements? Simply put, just because there was 16 trillion USD worth of currency loaned by the fed does not mean that there were 16 trillion USD involved, plus since it was over a multiyear period does not mean that some of the funds had not come back in and loaned out again.

    Similar things have happened like this in history? Like what? Seriously. That would be an interesting item to research.

  38. Doug 25th July 2011 at 22:24 #

    I was looking at an actual chart. I've been teaching trading for 8 years, I think I know how to read a chart.

    Not all charts were showing it, but some were. Something is going on, and it looks like the dinar may be pegged to the GBP.

    As for dinar sites, I'm not sure Stew was talking to me? If so, the only thing I look at are Unclassified documents from the government or anything I can pull up on a chart.

    I only believe a small amount of "News" on any of the main stream media channels, let alone a bunch of folks guessing at what they think the dinar or any other investment will do for that matter.

    I'm unsure of what you mean by:

    "Similar things have happened like this in history? Like what?"


    The Fed has NEVER been audited before, and I would bet my life on the fact that whoever did the audit did NOT see all the cards on the table. Those boys have been doing about what they want with our money supply since the unconstitutional bank came into existence!

    These bankers play to win, and they normally do. I have learned to trade along with them, and make a little slice as I go along for the ride. You can't beat them, so you might as well ride along.

  39. Stew 26th July 2011 at 07:59 #

    Doug... go to DollarDaze and pull up the charts on world money supply numbers.
    Then go to the CBI website and pull up the financials and compare the money supply numbers.
    Money supply numbers. That's currency in circulation, M1, M2, and M3.
    Maybe look up the definition of money supply numbers... because it's pretty obvious from your comments you don't understand what those numbrs are made up of.
    Also... your comment in one post that the dinar is fluctuating against the GBP and then in the next post saying the Dinar apears to be pegged to the GBP shows you have no clue what a pegged currency is. The dinar will fluctuate against all currencies that it is NOT pegged to. Unless that currency is also pegged to the same currency.
    The dinar is pegged to the dollar, so it is stable to the dollar and all other currencies pegged to the dollar. It will fluctuate against all other currencies.

  40. Doug 26th July 2011 at 09:00 #


    I did NOT say the dinar IS pegged to the GBP, I said it looks like it MAY be in the future. At any rate, I think we will soon see, so all this banter back and forth serves no real purpose.

    As for M1 2 and 3 levels, if you think that tells the whole story of what Central bank bankers around the world are doing, you are living in a fantasy land.

  41. Stew 26th July 2011 at 11:34 #

    So Iraq gets about 95% of it's revenues from dollar denominated oil sales... and you somehow see that they may peg the dinar to the GBP?

    You are right that this serves no purpose. Your mind is made up. But at least it's good for a laugh... cuz when someone waiting on a massive rv of their shoebox full of dinar, that Iraq has announced a plan to redenominate, starts lecturing on central bankers and claimng others are living in fantasy land... well that's just high comedy.

  42. Doug 26th July 2011 at 13:16 #


    No where did I say I was waiting for a "massive rv", just the opposite. If you would READ before you post your no brain comments it would help!

    The European bankers own the Fed anyway, so nothing would surprise me. You probably still believe the government controls the money supply!

    Yes, my mind is made up - no matter what ridiculous misquote you try to label me with, anyone with half a brain could go back and see. So, I'm done with this waste of my time. I think your eyes may be opened up by years end, but again, I don't know if your eyes will ever be opened up.

  43. Stew 26th July 2011 at 13:36 #

    Good luck Doug. Please... please come back and tell us how you made out after the redenomination is done.

  44. LurkerBob 1st November 2011 at 23:18 #

    Good News / Bad News on Revaluation

    The Good News is you dinar will increase in value 1000%

    The Bad news is the denominations will decrease in value 1000%


  45. mughal 16th November 2011 at 09:21 #

    will Iraqi diner go up ?

  46. dinarholder 10th December 2011 at 20:02 #

    Sure mughal, it's going up any minute now, all of us invested are going to be millionaires. I hope you're keeping up with the message boards and the conference calls cause their information is so accurate I mean look back to a year ago when they said it would RV before years end, because it "HAD" to RV, cause they can't continue a prosperous economy with such an undervalued currency. Take china for example, their currency has been undervalued for years and their economy is about to collapse because of it....uh, um, wait, what I mean to say is look at all that oil.

  47. mr.white 24th June 2012 at 21:16 #


  48. Jackson Jenson 12th December 2012 at 17:23 #

    This is a very interesting post. There are so many different opinions being thrown around in these comments.

  49. James 13th December 2012 at 20:44 #

    Doug its almost year end and we gonna be rich , Just like last year and the year before and so on ...........

    People if you hold dinar just hold on to it and if something good happens it will if not oh well , Stop saying its gonna happen today yesterday year end bla bla bla

  50. AeoNation 22nd December 2012 at 23:43 #

    Agreed James, the Scenario was enticing enough for me to have gone and pick up a lil dinar at a local currency exchange at the mall.Tucked them away so that id forget about them until and if anything ever happened with the currency. I invested as i always have, I only invest what im willing to throw out the window of an airplane at 30,000 feet.The message boards and stuff are full of BS,, same bs as years gone by , no doubt. The Direct news coming out of Iraq seems rather shaky as of late. Im finding it interesting to at least sit back and watch what is transpiring in Iraq from afar. Not lending any credence to the LameStream media or any of the self proclaimed "gurus". Would it be nice.. Sure. Will it ever happen.. odds are No.. There is no way the Rothschilds are to be "one upped" by anyone on this planet, hell look what happened to Kennedy when he tried to back the dollar with silver and gold.. 11 days later he was dead...