By Tom Cleveland, market analyst for Forex Traders, exclusively for Iraq Business News. Forextraders.com is an online resource for the foreign exchange market.
“Buy on the rumor, sell on the news” is a time-honored investment phrase that is oftentimes more confusing than the wisdom it attempts to impart. The meaning relates primarily to company securities that appreciate in expectation of a big news announcement. Early speculation drives ups the price, such that when the real announcement is made, most investors sell on the news to take their profits, often driving the price down, rather than up. “Pump and Dump” stock frauds also follow a similar scenario, but in this case, criminals benefit and investors lose.
A similar situation has been building for years, some say as many as eight years, surrounding the potential “revaluation” of the Iraqi Dinar. As the rumor would have it, the Iraqi economy has stabilized, and the potential for enormous foreign currency reserves from increased oil exports will drive the value of the Dinar to unconscious levels versus the U.S Dollar. The government authorities will be forced to revalue the currency from 1,175 to 3 per Dollar, resulting in an outrageous windfall for anyone owning stockpiles of the currency. Does something here sound a little too good to be true?
In actuality, the Iraqi Dinar, or “IQD”, is a “controlled” currency. The central bank of Iraq determines the exchange rate and must support that rate by maintaining adequate foreign currency reserves to handle capital flows across its borders. The IMF permits countries with a transitional economy to implement currency controls in order to stabilize their economy during its redevelopment phase. Presently, international banks will not accept the Dinar, and it is not traded on any forex exchange. Actual purchases can be made through currency dealers that have been authorized to buy and sell banknotes that are already in circulation.
It's a total scam.... You can only lose money. It's not even an investment.... It's a total scam and everything the " gurus " write is a lie.
hey bob and lz are you morons still worried about what other people do with their money lol you'd think you guys would go get a life and bob currency dealers are in business to buy and sell currency thats it their not in business to hoard dinar moron and lz your just a fool who has nothing better to do than comment on this site your single right? you guys tell me what "scam" allows you to sell your dinar back if you need to at anytime go on with your obviously pitiful lives oh and merry xmas lol
Rich,
You are a total buffoon! What's the point of buying dinars and selling it back to the scammers for 20% less? The only people making money Are the low life scammers that are selling Dinar. All those liars aim at foolish, desperate religious folks and promise them insane wealth. Only an un educated fool would turkey invest with these carpetbaggers .
I am hopeful Rich that you invested every dime you have in dinars and lose big time!
im the buffoon? and your the one wasting your time telling people their wasting their time investing in this lol you have no clue your mom must be proud lol
iam starting to wonder if it is a scam but for what i invested and for me not to take a risk would have even been more folish ive lost more money in 1 roll on a roulett tabel and if dose hit 1 ive won big time so later liz no guts lady did you find a boy friend yet ill let you clean my bathroom and drive car for me when my 1 2 3 come in oooooooooooooooo yes its coming
Sucker!!!
Keep those scammers scamming!!
You will never recoup your $$$. You want a big RV and I want to sleep with J Lo..... The only difference is I have a shot.
This thread is so childish. You'd think the people against the dinar were having their money spent... why give a rats @ss if these people want to take the chance. Get a life people. And for those who do own dinars... I hope you can afford the loss, and if you make the big gain... that's great! But don't bet the farm on it. There now all the wisdom in the world has been said about dinars ... kill this thread and leave everyone to fend for their own dinars or other investments.
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tomcat i agree why are people like lz wasting minutes in their life to post comments on something their not even involved in lol very childish indeed
I post my thoughts because I don't want to see these scammers, who might even have affiliation with terrorists, getting any American money in their kick.
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LZ now you are totally assuming something silly. You have no proof of anything to do with terrorists when someone buys Iraq dinars. If you really want to do something positive for America you should lobby your own government about getting into bed with China, and perhaps get your national debt under control, instead of posting silliness on here.
Sillyness??? There may be no proof of it, but it's certainly not all that hard to imagine that some of the dinar suppliers out of the middle east might have some terrorist affiliations.
I and others post on this subject because I/we find it interesting. Just like I post on sports boards and political boards. I have no money invested in any of those either, yet I participate. Do you dinar people only talk about things you have money invested in?
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Whoa, back up a minute there LZ. I totally can understand wanting to post on a forum about something political if it has some angle of involvement with you (assuming you are American). And I would also assume you'd post something on a forum involved with a sport you like or are a fan of some team or something. But to blatently be posting on a thread here about a countries money that has nothing to do with you indirectly or otherwise on a weird out there hunch that some money exchangers are terrorists is just so bizzare. Truly if you wanted to do something positive for the U.S. lobby your politicians and form a concerned group on a subject that would effect change for the better in America. Posting @ss backward comments on here bashing people who are willing to speculate on a currency makes no sense.
Here's a parrallel scenerio as to how silly you look in my eyes... everyone should just cancel xmas and gifts and the whole holiday and save all their money because it's just all bogus. Don't do any other holiday either because they are all a waste of money, no valentines day, halloween, Easter, or any other religion including Jewish and Muslim holidays...get rid of it all just because I don't believe in any of it.
Now next, I should bash anyone who thinks otherwise just because I don't believe in any of it. Push my thoughts on them all.
See how easy it is to get out of context here and pee people off who believe in dinars and the possibilities.
Let them believe in their dreams of massive wealth...lol People buy lottery tickets now and then and almost never win anything. So what should we bash them all too.
Quite frankly it's none of your business literally what people do with their money. If they want to roll it and smoke it so be it.
I wish all well here and a Merry Christmas... lots of gifts and I hope those that bought dinars make millions. And if you remember this post and want to share some just post here when/if your dinars come through... Id be glad to take some off your hands...lol Yah Stew, I even wish you a Merry Christmas as well. I saw a cartoon once that showed even Grinches come around..lol! Oh and a happy New Year while I'm at it.
well said tomcat! and i wish you and yours a very merry xmas as well and a happy and prosperous new year my friend and stick around if we do make money off of this investment i might just share a few dinars with ya just for that post!
Tomcat is right, people who think they'll make a fortune from dinars are the sort of people who believe in Santa.
no one wins this. both sides are to passionate.agree to disagree, wish each other well and everybody just run along now....
absolutely agree BBob, those that have no investment in dinars should just move on.. those that have dinars enjoy your dream. Those that believe in Santa...carry on put up a tree and go enjoy the season.
Of course, every scammer wants "nay-sayers" to shut up, move on, stop challenging them, and let them carry on selling false hope to the gullible.
tomcat lol ho ho ho hey iraq investor tomcat never said any such thing let me guess you dont own dinar and you call yourself iraq investor? i hope your not in warka they are having a bit of trouble lol
This thread is so worthless I'll gain more by writing something here about Frank Zappa and his kids Moon Unit and wonder bread.
Funny someone who calls themself "Iraqi Investor" seems to be against buying them. Now just so I'm clear on this thread I don't believe anyone on here is a scammer trying to sell dinars? I think pretty much everyone on here who isn't bashing dinars and buying them are just plain people who have a dream of making it big with them. I haven't seen anyone trying to sell them on here have you? I don't sell them that's for sure. At best its a speculative investment. But every good portfolio should have some of that. Oh I should mention I bought some lottery tickets today to give away to some friends for their stockings at Christmas...hope that doesn't upset you poor bashers...lol and just to upset you even more I think I may go out and buy a few thousand iraqi dinars and put them in their stockings as well and direct them to this thread so they can fight with you bashers as well....lol... merry xmas all. Hope Santa doesn't send you a chunk of coal...lol
Kaperoni and Dan "Checkmate" Atkinson have both posted on this site. Both are big dinar scammers.
This is a news site that predominantly deals in facts. Whether they be good or bad. If you don’t want to hear the truth about the dinar... That being that any talk of a major RV is nothing but a scam, then you best head back and take cover on one of the many dinar sites that don’t allow the truth to be posted.
Good luck with the lottery tickets. Those are a fabulous investment compared to the dinar. There is a chance you could hit the lottery. There is absolute zero chance the dinar will RV like the scammers claim.
You have all the right in the world to waste your money on whatever scam you want to fall for. But you don’t have the right to run around the internet spreading lies and false hope to others, and have that go unchallenged.
stew,for one thing obviously you havent been to our site or know anything about kaperoni for you to put him in the same category as dan or any other guru is completely laughable dinar alert site was setup for the very reason you talk about because they got tired of all the b.s. out there on other sites they go strictly off of articles and facts nothing else so maybe you need to step back and do some research before you make moronic statements like that oh and one more thing stew, what SCAM allows you to sell back your dinar if you need to sure at a slight loss but still your able to and also if you think about it stew if you bought 1000.00 worth of dinar and you can get back 800.00 on average if you decide you need to sell to me thats not much of a SCAM or risk hell im sure you spend that much a month in viagra lol
tomcat : "You’d think the people against the dinar were having their money spent… why give a rats @ss if these people want to take the chance. Get a life people"
tomcat : "those that have no investment in dinars should just move on"
As I said before, those who know what they're talking about, talk about the economics behind it. Those who don't just endlessly question others right to post and tell everyone else to "shut up and go away" when they get taken out of their comfort zones...
Iraq-businessnews.com is a serious investment site for people looking into serious grown-up long-term investments in Iraq's industries (oil, agriculture, transportation, construction, etc). If you're going to bring the "earn $1m from changing $1k of USD notes into $1k of IQD then back again" Dinar scam over here (rather than keep it on heavily censored pumper boards), then don't be too surprised if "have faith dude" no longer cuts it. Telling people to "go away" obviously misses the whole point of these boards - which are rather different to "Dinar Daddy's Tidbits" in both content & intent, etc, and other such manufactured fake "secret intel" boards run by "personality" conmen.
I wish everyone here a very Merry Christmas. But please don't keep telling others to "shut up" when they post something you don't like. People only resort to that here because unlike the pumper boards, IBN doesn't ban serious investors for not blindly parroting the sales-pitch like a cult...
I don't what some of you idiots have been reading or where you're getting your information, but I am an economist and I've studied the economy rebuilding in Iraq and its dinar has gained significant value in the last ten years compared to the dollar and rises everyday. This country is going to be the backbone with its minerals, natural gas, oil, and all the gold recently purchased by Iraq only strengthens their currency. With the assets this country has, their currency will be one of the strongest currencys on the market soon. Now what will the revalue be?? Is to be determined by the CBI. I've done my math on this dinar revalue and I've got to say Iraq is going to make money on this but by no leans will go into the debt column to make anyone rich. I've done my figures and figured a .10 revalue to start with and get all the big denominations off the street and I'm sure the time period will be about 90 days to cash in then your dinar will no longer be of value. The CBI has to control the debt ratio because it's costing the CBI money to do this so their spread will probably be set somewhere in the 25% range. You're going to pay a spread that's inevitable. So if you invested in let's 1milloon dinar , then your ROI looks close to around 100,000.00 before all spread fees are paid. It will RV, but by no means will it make you a millionaire. Now if it does come in one to one then expect to walk away with around 860,000.00. You're going to pay a spread. Everyone will get a chunk before its done. The CBI will buy back your dinar for .75% less than the RV. they have to make their debt ratio column balanced. In other words if it comes in at 3:1 expect to trade in at 2.25. Then they'll buy in at that rate and sell that same amount of dinars you just traded for $3.00 to meet their spread. Half of you idiots here have no clue what you're talking about. Do you're economical research before criticizing anyone. Why do you think they are raising te capital gains tax from 15 to 20%? Happy New Year to all. Maybe I should buy dinars!
Iraqi Native, maybe you can use your background and education as an "economist" to take a look at these numbers for me:
Saudi Arabia:
GDP (in USD): 577 billion
Money supply (M2, in USD): 309 billion
M2/GDP ratio: 0.54
UAE:
GDP: 360 B
M2: 225 B
Ratio: 0.63
Venezuala:
GDP: 316 B
M2: 156 B
Ratio: 0.49
Kuwait:
GDP: 177 B
M2: 103 B
Ratio: 0.58
Turkey:
GDP: 773 B
M2: 259 B
Ratio: 0.34
Iraq:
GDP: 115 B
M2: 65 B
Ratio: 0.57
Notice that Iraq's total currency value falls right in the middle of that range. I.e., exactly where it should be, and where you would expect it to be.
What happens if they "RV" their currency to 0.10 as your theory (or should I say, Adam's theory) suggests? Then:
GDP: 115 B
M2: 7,500 B
Ratio: 65.2
At 1 to 1:
GDP: 115 B
M2: 75,000 B
Ratio: 652
At 3 to 1:
GDP: 115 B
M2: 225,000 B
Ratio: 1956
Does your extensive background and education as an "economist" see any problems there?
In order to RV to 10 cents they'd have had to reduce their money supply from the current ~75 trillion (as stated by the CBI themselves) to around 750 billion. Is that possible?
No, it isn't. First of all, Dinar Trade alone sold over 500 billion dinar just in 2011. Look it up, it's been in numerous articles. Second of all, is Iraq, who wants to be in the good graces of the IMF and the WTO and the international financial community, going to lie to the tune of 74 trillion dinar to everyone on the planet? No, they're not. Third, if they had reduced their money supply so vastly, wouldn't the people in Iraq have noticed it and wouldn't that have driven up the value? All sources indicate that the street value of the dinar bounces around between 1220 and 1320 or so, significantly less than the official rate. Are all Iraqis so out of it that they can't even see what's right in front of them, that millions of foreigners with little to no understanding of economics have noticed?
The Iraqi dinar is legitimate currency. That's why you can buy it and then sell it back and, if you bought from a dealer any time in the last 5 years or so, take a 20-40 percent loss. The fact that it's a legitimate currency has no bearing on the SCAM aspect of the dinar, which involves:
1. Guru's lying constantly about super secret intel.
2. Dealers charging enormous spreads.
3. Promises of vast riches "any day now"
4. People going to jail for lying about the dinar in order to enrich themselves.
The chance of the dinar RVing to 10 cents is precisely zero. You literally have a better chance of getting rich by finding a winning powerball ticket lying in the gutter.
gt5 you talk as if this is such a huge risk to people if they want to buy some dinar and hold it just in case something happens to their currency i have recently sold some dinar back only because i needed some money right now on dinar banker you can buy 1 million dinar for 960 and sell back for 840 so to me its not much of a risk and even if they did lop thats a neutral event so no loss there and if they were going to lop why havent they done it by now? Because thats not what their going to do they need to raise the value if they want their people to wanna use it instead of the usd bottom line.
When the potential reward is zero, any risk at all is huge on the risk vs. reward scale.
Losing 120 dollars for a chance at a 100,000 dollar profit isn't much of a risk. The problems is that there is zero chance of a 100,000 dollar profit.
At this point the best you could reasonably hope for is a 20% gain or so (the dinar moving from 1166 to 1000, or even into the 900s), which once you figure in the spread selling each way, will likely still result in a net loss. More likely than that though is the dinar continuing to muddle its way along in the 1170 ratio, or drop from the official rate of 1170 somewhere into the 1200s or even 1300s.
2. If you think you'd break even with a lop, you're sorely mistaken. This notion is one commonly put out there by the gurus, but like virtually everything they say, it's total garbage. You paid 960 dollars for 858 dollars worth of currency, so you've already lost $102 (11%) right off the top.
Lopping is no guarantee that US banks will immediately start dealing in dinar. It's likely that you'll be stuck using the same MSBs that most people got their dinar from in the first place.
If they lop the dealers aren't going to have a market to resell your dinars, so if you think they're still going to be buying them for 840 you are sorely mistaken. The only reason they're buying for 840 is because they're going to resell them for 960 and getting them locally for 840 is easier than hassling with getting them in Iraq for 860 and then getting them all the way to the US. So even if they only charge that same 11% spread again, you're down to $764 for what you paid $960 for, a 196 dollar (over 20%) loss.
But if US banks still won't have anything to do with the dinar, and the dinar dealers don't have a local market to resell them, that means they have to repatriate them to Iraq. Pretty sure Iraq has a law against leaving the country with more than 10,000 USD worth of dinar (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Given that, how easy do you think it will be for the dinar dealers to get hundreds of billions of dinar back into Iraq and cashed in for USD? Iraq sure doesn't want them back. They've already got USD and Euros and gold for them.
If Iraq lops, getting billions or trillions of dinar into Iraq and millions or billions of USD out of Iraq seems like a risky, time consuming, expensive proposition to me. I don't think you'll see an 11% spread. I think 50% is more likely. That'd put your return on your $960 "investment" at $429 per million, or a 55% loss.
I think most dinar sellers will just immediately close shop though, rather than deal with all the POd dinarians and the risk and expense of getting the dinar back into Iraq and the USD back out of Iraq.
Maybe one of the big ones like DT has already planned ahead and made arrangements to do it in the event of a lop, but what if he hasn't? We're talking about millions and millions of dollars worth of hard currency. What's he gonna do? Send a thousand guys through customs each with a briefcase full of dinar and hope they all make it through? FedEx boxes full of hard currency? Keep in mind that, for Iraq, people giving them USD for their currency and then that currency immediately leaving the country (effectively taking it out of circulation) is a very GOOD thing. All that money coming back into the country and their USD and euros and gold DEPARTING the country is a very BAD thing, and I think anyone can understand why.
Is Ali going to risk hundreds of millions of his own dollars trying to get all that dinar back into Iraq? Don't think so. He's either going to charge you an arm and a leg for it, or he's going to say the heck with it, I don't need this hassle, and take his hundreds of millions of USD in profit and spend the rest of his life in Belize living on an orangutan farm.
So, here's the list of potential rewards:
Chance of the 1000x+ profit most of you were promised: zero.
Chance of 100x profit: zero.
Chance of 10x profit: zero.
Chance of making a few bucks if you bought in 2004-2006 or so: Good, but only if you sell before they lop or before dinarmania drops off much further, and of course don't look at what Au or GOOG or AAPL has done over that same time period, as your few bucks will look like a pretty miserable return given the risk.
Chance of making a few bucks if you bought within the last 5 years or so: ALMOST zero.
And the potential risks:
Losing 20% or so: Practically guaranteed. Unless you bought in 2011 or 2010, when prices were frequently 1120-1220 per million, in which case you'll probably lose 50-60%.
Losing 50% or so: quite likely.
Losing 100%: Entirely possible, and may be even likely if they lop, given what I already explained above plus the fact that they closed the borders when they RD'd in 2003, if I'm not mistaken.
And speaking of dinarmania dropping off, go to a website traffic ranker like alexa and take a look at the traffic for websites like DT or DV. There's a reason you can buy for 960 now: everyone else has wised up. DT has dropped from a "reach %" of almost 0.013 down to 0.00043. That's an almost 3,000% drop. There may be a sucker born every minute, but that apparently still isn't enough to keep the dinar scam going. Buy rates will most likely continue to drop, and I bet many stop buying altogether, unless they have a cheap, easy, foolproof way of repatriating the dinar into Iraq.
So there you have it. High risk, either low or non-existent reward. Not the kind of investments I look for, but hey, that's just me. If that's the kind of investment you're into maybe we can work out an arrangement where instead of you sending your $960 to DT, you just give it to me, I'll kick you in the groin and hand $840 of it back to you, and we can go on our merry ways.
"if they were going to lop why havent they done it by now?"
If they were going to implement the HCL why haven't they done it by now? If they were going to fully seat the GOI why haven't they done it by now? If they were gonna get the Erbil agreement figured out why haven't they done it by now? Read the news, dude, they're not exactly kings of productivity over there. Plus you've got American "investors" giving them interest free USD loans, so why lop now? Keeping milking them until they're dry and then lop, makes more sense, right? And the cow is starting to dry up, as the traffic at dinar sites PROVES.
"Because thats not what their going to do they need to raise the value if they want their people to wanna use it instead of the usd bottom line."
I see gurus say this all the time, and sorry, but it makes no sense. It isn't VALUE that makes people want to use a currency, it's CONFIDENCE, and the two are more inversely related than directly related. Seriously, just think about this:
Jimmy, an Iraqi citizen that's in charge of cleaning the toilets in the Capitol building in Iraq, gets paid 90,000 dinar a week. He doesn't trust the dinar to even maintain the 1170 rate, so he goes and exchanges it for USD at the street rate of 1220 dinar per dollar. He gets 74 USD at that rate. 74 USD buys the EXACT SAME amount of cigarettes, or falafal, or top hats, or whatever, as the 90,000 dinar. That's what street rate means, they're worth the same at that rate. Same value.
So now you're telling me that the CBI is going to issue an edict proclaiming that the value of the dinar is 1000x as much and he's NOT going to want to cash in any dinar he has? Think about it. He was worried that his 90,000 dinar wouldn't be worth the 74 USD tomorrow that he is today, but you think if his 90,000 dinar is all of a sudden worth 90,000 USD, he's going to trust that it'll maintain that rate forever? That's CRAZY!
If the dinar went to a buck tomorrow you're telling me you wouldn't convert any of it to USD or gold or silver or property or Ferraris, you'd leave most of it as IQD? You'd be nuts to do that. Anyone with half a brain would cash in every single dinar they had because they're be mortally afraid that the value would crash and they'd lose bigtime. You think Iraqis don't have half a brain? They'd be in line cashing in before you would.
A massive increase in value wouldn't cause a massive increase in confidence, it would cause a massive DECREASE in confidence. If you really think about this, you'll realize it's 100% true.
"DT has dropped from a “reach %” of almost 0.013 down to 0.00043. That’s an almost 3,000% drop."
Meant to say that .013 is about 3,000% higher than .00043. In terms of % drop from their peak, they've lost 97% of their reach. Either way you figure it it = down the toilet, which isn't good news for dinar investors.
Excellent posts GT5Junkie.
"I think most dinar sellers will just immediately close shop though, rather than deal with all the POd dinarians and the risk and expense of getting the dinar back into Iraq and the USD back out of Iraq."
Indeed. And that's precisely why all amateur Dinar scam-sellers have clauses such as these:-
"Treasury Vault reserves the right to reject any requested buy-back submitted by anyone for any reason. Filling out this form and submitting your currency to Treasury Vault does not constitute a commitment by Treasury Vault to purchase your submitted banknotes"
Or in other words "When the Dinar eventually redenominates and reality sinks in, we reserve the right to close the doors and do a runner..."
john if you knew anything about this investment you'd know that the dinar that we investors hold are not going back to iraq it will be held in cbi's around the world and also for your information i have been selling some of my dinar back cause i needed some cash and have had no problem in doing so although it wasn't with currency vault i just find it funny how so many people are concerned about my finances lol worry about yourselves.
Rich. How many Kaperoni t-shirts and coffee mugs do you have?
Rich, instead of doing "research" by reading dinar sites and swallowing pumper lies, why don't you do some actualy research, and figure out how many different countries currency the US holds a trillion of in our reserves.
I'll save you some time. The answer is zero. But feel free to verify that yourself.
Since the answer is zero, now ask yourself why, since they don't do it for any other country, the US would want to hold a trillion hyperinflated Iraqi dinar for no reason whatsoever (since we don't really buy very much oil from Iraq, and what we do buy we pay for in USD).
All you're doing is repeating ridiculous pumper/guru lies that have zero evidence or logic supporting them.
The mythical 100,000% RV (or 10,000%, or 1,000%) is never going to happen. Period. Sooner or later you'll realize that (if you don't die first). When you do realize it, maybe learn some humility and realize that you had no clue what you were talking about and instead of spreading lies and nonsense that could suck other people into this ridiculous scam, you should have kept your mouth shut.
These type of people never learn a lesson. They are the gullible in a room of gullible. The fools fool.
When the dinar redenominates, and it will eventually redenominate, and they lose their rear, the people who have scammed them all along they so faithfully followed will simply blame it on some boogieman like Maliki or Obama or the IMF. They will claim the RV was supposed to happen. Even in midst of a lop they will claim the “loppers” were wrong. These dupes will fall for it and hang out on dinar sites talking about class action lawsuits for years afterwards.
Want proof. Go check out some penny stock boards and look at big penny stocks that went belly-up years ago. People still hang out on those things posting. There are still many who support the scammers who stole their money and blame things on outside sources.
A few will learn a lesson, but not many.
rich - "John, if you knew anything about this investment you’d know that the dinar that we investors hold are not going back to iraq it will be held in cbi’s around the world"
That's nonsensical gibberish. "CBI" is the Central Bank of Iraq - there's only one and it's based in - guess where - Iraq (just like the Bank of England is in England, just like the Federal Reserve is in the USA and not Thailand). It's very clear from that statement alone you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about if you believe every country with have a "Central Bank of Iraq", LOL...
rich -i just find it funny how so many people are concerned about my finances lol worry about yourselves.
You think far too highly of yourself. I am not "concerned" or "worried" about you at all "lol". It really is time you dropped the attempted emotional propaganda of trying to pretend anyone who corrects you're false facts is somehow "worried" out of pride.
And pumper Kaperoni is a laughing stock to all but his cult followers. His “argument” that “delete” and “lift” 3 zeroes are “different things” is right up there with developing a cult following out of arguing “water”, “H2O”, “agua” and “vatten” are different things because they’re spelled differently in different languages...
Yep, Stew, I came to the same conclusion. A few will realize that they've been scammed all along, but most will probably just continue on on CMKX style websites, and probably continue getting scammed, paying $399 for VIP status so they can get "super secret lawsuit inside intel" and contributing money towards scammers for legal fees so that the "PTB" (Obama, Rothschilds, illuminati, etc) can be sued and they'll get their 300,000% return.
"And pumper Kaperoni is a laughing stock to all but his cult followers."
Every dinarian thinks that "his" guru is telling the truth, and all the other ones are clueless or liars, which is amusing since they're all telling lies that are virtually identical.
Also amusing, yet disturbing, is the number of dinarians that have figured out that the rates and dates are all complete lies, and they mock the gurus for them, yet they repeat every single other guru lie like it's fact (perfect example, our friend here insisting that the Fed would like to hand out a trillion or so USD in order to hold a trillion or so dinar as a reserve currency, which is completely moronic). Other examples that originated with the same gurus they decry as liars, yet virtually all dinarians accept as fact: the UST holds 4 trillion dinar, deleting 3 zeros isn't a lop, the dinar was artificially dropped in value in 2003 as a means of economic warfare, the current rate is being held down artificially by the IMF, etc, etc, etc.
The gurus that don't push rates and dates every single week are heralded as realistic and down to earth and honest, meanwhile they spout absolute idiotic nonsense, like AMs 10 cent rate guide, where AM proves that he has trouble with simple math (like dividing by 10) and hypothesizes about rate increase mechanisms that a reasonably intelligent 8 year old would be able to debunk in about 2 minutes.
Another of my favorites is the "3.42 rate is completely impossible, but the 1 to 1 rate is realistic and practically guaranteed" type arguments. A 116,000% increase in value is guaranteed, but an additional 242% is just over the top? Nice logic. Okie's $12 to $42 rates are precisely as likely as AMs 10 cent rate.
What I've witnessed about the people that fall for the dinar scam honestly make me fear for the future of the human race. From what I've seen I'd say at least 30% of them aren't capable of correctly calculating a percentage, they think a 1000x increase is a 1000% increase. These are the people that have 12 kids and name them after reality TV stars, meanwhile every seriously intelligent person I know has 1 or 2 kids. Not hard to see what kind of trend that's going to cause in the human population.
gt,john,and stew i invite you all to come into dinar alert anytime and debate kap about your thoughts oh and if you dont think that there was a plan to revalue their money i suggest to all of you to check out the s.i.g.i.r. report it specifically states in there that they were to bring the value of the dinar to just under a buck morons and if you need help finding it im sure you can find it on our site now that being said to john i apologize what i meant to say was the dinar will be held and traded among central banks around the world i know that there's only one cbi my mistake oh and another thing you guys call this a scam well i know people that bought a few years ago and have doubled their money if they were to sell right now so there goes that theory its a legitimate investment although i do agree there are a bunch of moronic pumpers that dont have a clue kaperoni is just the opposite and has done his research for quite a few years he doesnt give false hope like okie or terry k he gives it to us straight good news or bad so for you to put him in the same category as those two is laughable so i invite any one of you to come into our site sometime and lets see who comes out with chit on the end of their stick!
LOL… Kap sells t-shirts that say “I’m waiting for my text message that says I’m rich”
He also sells text message and voice message services.
Here Rich shows another thing about dinar holders that just blows my mind. They find these articles that talk about returning the dinar to 1:1 with the dollar.
Here’s the SIGR text he referes to:
"In April 2012, the CoM postponed indefinitely
plans for a currency reform that would have removed
three zeros from the Iraqi dinar in 2013 and
required the issuance of new currency notes. The
reform would have made the dinar’s value slightly
less than $1.”
So yes it does say the value would be near $1, but just like everywhere else they see this, it clearly states it would be done by currency reform and removing 3 zeros. Anyone with a smidgeon of sense realizes that is a lop. These people are actually convinced that official reports and announcements are coming out of Iraq that state they will do a 100,000% RV sometime in the near future. I can’t come up with words that describe the mentality that it would take to believe such statements would be made. Countries lie through their teeth, hide and deny ½ or ¼ percent moves in their currency, yet people actually believe Iraq is pre-announcing a 100,000% increase.
Rich - "gt,john,and stew i invite you all to come into dinar alert anytime and debate kap about your thoughts "
Rich, this is nothing more than silly cult of personality worship you've already tried and failed at last year. Kaperoni has popped up on other forums and run away several times after being well and truly hammered with the truth. Q: Why can YOU not construct your own arguments here? A: Because you basically don't have any beyond parroting already debunked pumper sales slogans and your desperate pleas to try and drag debate from this uncensored board to censored ones...
Dinar Alert is a junk pumper site paid for by salesmen and rife with censorship of anything the "dares" criticize the pumpers position - and because of that any serious "debate" is impossible just as it is on censorship-heavy DinarVets run like a banana republic. Any site with such censorship openly admits it has something to hide...
And the fact the entire business model of Dinar Alert is based on charging you money to "alert you" that Iraq has magically replaced every banknote, ATM, money counting machine, currency accounting process, retail cash tills, etc, in a country of 30m people "in secret" and that Kaperoni will "know" ahead of Iraqi's who live in Iraq, is just perfect proof of how utterly and chronically delusional some people really are. It's already a laughing stock for accidentally issuing at least 2 past false alerts to some subscribers as seen in complaints on other forums. LOL.
"DinarAlert uses state of the art currency monitoring software - watching simultaneously major banking institutions, Forex, IraqFX, TorFX and the Central Bank of Iraq."
OMG. It "watches web pages". LOL. I can write a Javascript to refresh a page continuously and search for a specific value for free... Meanwhile the disclaimer on the bottom of Dinar Alert continues to read : "The information obtained on this site is for entertainment purposes". Says it all...
Rich -"oh and if you dont think that there was a plan to revalue their money i suggest to all of you to check out the s.i.g.i.r. report"
What you mean this one : "CBI has announced that it intends to implement a long-planned redenomination of the Iraqi dinar by eliminating three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes." - SIGIR quarterly reports.
Rich -"it specifically states in there that they were to bring the value of the dinar to just under a buck"
Yes, by redenominating and knocking 3-zeroes off the face value of banknotes - as the SIGIR report clearly & openly stated word for word which will lop the rate from 1165 to 1.165, but your favorite pumper "accidentally" left that sentence out of his "intel" and crayoned in "Go RV!" instead... LOL.
Rich -"morons"
And as usual - you reveal your true colors - empty rhetoric & petty insults - because you have no facts and cannot hold an intelligent debate on any level (or even breakup words into coherent sentences & paragraphs with punctuation).
Rich -"i know people that bought a few years ago and have doubled their money if they were to sell right now"
A "few" years ago was 2009, and the rate in 2009 was about 1160:1 - same as today. Even 6 years ago (2007) it was 1230-1290:1. In mid-2005 back to 2004 the rate was around 1460:1, which is not "double" today's 1165:1 at all. So that's yet another lie you've told. Do you think you can just make up figures and no-one will check?
Buying at a rate of 1460:1 in 2004 and selling at 1168 today works to to barely 20% profit over 9 years - or an annual compound rate of return of just 2.4%. And that's ignoring commission fees. Take away 10% (and that's generous - some pumpers charge nearer 20% and up to a ludicrous 90% for smaller denoms) for those, and the rate of return drops to just 1.2% per year. And you're trying to "impress" people with a rate of return less than half that of a zero risk low-interest rate high-street savings account and about 1/4 of what you can get on a decent 10-year fixed rate bond? Seriously?
If you're referring to friends who bought Dinar at a rate of over 2400:1 back in the 90's before even the Kosovo War (very few people owned these then) - that was almost 20 years ago, and doubling your money over 20 years is still a low annual rate of return of just 2.9% - no better than the high street (and still excludes buying & selling commission fees - include that and it drops to nearer 2.5%) and still worse than risk-free +4% annual fixed-term bonds.
I'd be impressed if you doubled your money in a single year, but you haven't and neither have any of your "friends" over the past "few years" - even those who bought at +2000:1 in the 90's and are still holding today, as anyone can verify simply by looking at Iraq's year-on-year historical FX rate...
Nice try Rich, but there's nothing impressive or wonderful about an average 1.2-2.5% annual rate of return. It's actually extremely poor even by high-street bank account standards let alone for a Forex "investment". Serious FX traders get more than that per WEEK...
"you guys call this a scam well i know people that bought a few years ago and have doubled their money if they were to sell right now so there goes that theory its a legitimate investment"
As has already been pointed out, no one has doubled their money in the last "few years".
What's really funny though, is that you're making this comment on an article about Bernie Madoff. Apparently you really HAVEN'T heard of him. Anyone that got in fairly early with Madoff and had the luck or foresight to get out before his Ponzi scheme came crashing down made FAR better returns than you're (erroneously) claiming people have made on the dinar. So I guess by your logic, Madoff wasn't a scam artist and didn't run a Ponzi scheme. The people that lost millions with him will be happy to know this. When do you think they'll get all their money back?
The dinar is a legitimate currency, and like any currency, can appreciate or depreciate in value. That has absolutely no bearing on the scam being run on promises of 10,000 to 300,000+ percent returns that have zero chance of occuring.
You really need to try thinking for yourself rather than just repeating guru lies. If you're incapable of thinking for yourself, maybe you should leave the investing of your spare cash to a qualified professional.
"invite any one of you to come into our site sometime and lets see who comes out with chit on the end of their stick!"
Lol, people that tell the truth on "your" site are censored and banned.
Top-notch posts John, Stew & GT5Junkie. There are two aspects when discussing investments - 1. Profit (how much you made) and 2. Time (how long it took you to make it). Your return on investment is profit / time - Would you work for $100/hr? Yes. Would you work for $100/month? ($0.60/hr)? No.
This really isn't a particularly difficult concept to understand, yet for some reason it flies straight over the heads of those who call themselves Dinar "investors" (you don't "invest" in currency movements, you speculate on them) and who amusingly post "Yeah!?!? Well my buddy has doubled his money in 20 years!". Reality check : My daughter doubled hers in just 12 years in her ordinary "Junior Saver" bank account from 1998-2010 - and she didn't lose thousands of hours (how much is your time worth?) hunched over a PC day after day, month after month, year after year, looking for "secret intel" on its "real" value, nor lose 15-20% of its total initial value on commission fees opening & closing it, nor subscriptions to silly "intel alert services", etc 🙂
A 100% return in a year is excellent. But a 100% return over 20 years (2500:1 1990's Dinar to 1165:1 2013 Dinar) is cr*p - as John said, that's barely 3% compounded annually (plus fees) which is lower than simple zero-risk high-street savings accounts, and far lower than most other investments. Remember that before the 2007 crash, annual high-street interest rates were as high as 5-6% on savings accounts and 7-8% on fixed-term 5-10 year bonds - literally double the return leaving it in a simple $ savings account earning interest vs letting Dinar sit in a drawer. And after 2007, Dinar was no higher than 1300:1. Either way, the banknotes themselves have been a very poor investment unless you've actually done some tangible genuine investing with them (eg, invest directly in a growing Iraqi business / ISX winners). Buying Dinar isn't "investing in Iraq" because most of them are freshly printed (and can be printed to infinity like any other fiat currency).
Likewise, a 20% rate of return in a year is not bad at all, but the same 20% rate of return over 9 years (1450:1 Dinar 2004 to 1165:1 Dinar 2013) is also cr*p (under 2.5% annually). Especially when you lose 10% of your investment from day 1 on ripoff commission fees (which over 9 years instantly halves your total annual profit to 1.2% - even at "low" 10% commission fees). At 15% commission fees (Dinar Trade's current rate), your annual profit falls to an appalling 0.75%. Add another 5% "buy-back cash-in" spread and even that paltry 0.75% gets wiped out to nothing...
Most people who bought NID banknotes in the ballpark figure of 1400:1 in the mid-2000's have in reality only just broke even at 1170:1 once the typical 15% buying + further 5% selling two-way commission fees have been taken into account. Most people who bought at under 1300:1 on the more recent post-2007 pumper hype have actually made a loss.
In stark contrast, people like "Ali" are now multi-millionaires - not from buying or holding Dinar - but from SELLING Dinar to YOU - and BUYING $ FROM YOU! One day it will sink in why your "friends" who've been holding $1k worth them 15 years have made <3% profit per year, whilst Dinar pumpers make hundreds of thousands per year from getting rid of as many Dinar as possible (from ripoff commission fees)!
Holding the Dinar isn't even making thousands - but the 20% commission fees selling the Dinar (then recycling buybacks for another 20% cut) are making millions... Recycle the same banknote 5x at 20% cut per buy/sell cycle - and it's literally "money for nothing" for the sellers & pumpers...
Maybe this is a dumb question but I have been to several banks in Canada
Bank of Montreal, Toronto Dominion, Bank of Nova Scotia, Royal Bank
And have asked the managers at these banks about the Dinar to see if they have any information about the Dinar revaluing any time soon.
They all look at me as if I was from another planet!
The managers just say that the Dinar is not a legal currency and they do not buy or sell it.
I'm just wondering how is a person with Dinar supposed to cash it in
if and when it does revalue?
Yep Barry. How many times have we heard dinar holders claim “it can’t be a scam because I can sell it back any time I want”? What nonsense.
If I started a business selling a widget for $1200 and offering to buy that same widget back for $800 knowing I could turn around and sell that widget for $1200 and repeat the process over and over again that would be a great business. Many businesses do just that and it’s not a scam. What would make my business just like the dinar and a major scam is if I was promoting the idea that my widget, which is worth about $1000, was in the near future bound to increase in value to $1,000,000. That is a massive scam and some dinar dealers and gurus have already been indicted for doing just that. I just wonder why they haven’t cracked down on the rest of these thieves. How Roger Dorman (Dinar Daddy) isn’t in jail right now baffles me. The guy’s site links and displays just about every lie and fabrication there is about the dinar. All the while he openly promotes Currency Vault which is owned by his wife.
My guess is that there will be a lot more indictments coming down the pike over the next 12 months. They had to start somewhere, and the BHG group with their bogus hedge fund was one of the easiest targets.
But, maybe there won't. Maybe the prosecutors only really get interested if enough people are complaining about a certain scammer, or if some disgruntled investor leads them by the nose to a certain scammer with solid evidence of misdeeds.
I'd like to see AM of DV get nailed. He thinks he's covering his A by (mostly) avoiding the constant rates and dates and the more egregious lies of the other scammers, but I don't really see any difference between the BHG group selling hedge fund seats for a post RV hedge fund that will never exist, and AM selling VIP access where the big draws are cash in rates and post RV investments that will never exist. There certainly isn't a difference morally (i.e. they're both scumbags), but maybe there's a difference legally, I'm not sure.
Gt5 so what your saying is the people who were successfull with madoff successfully unknowingly robbed others of their investment in a legal manner. Unfortunatly that matter is of an ongoing fiasco such as this fiasco. And ultimatly anything they did get will certainly be taken away from them. Just as i said last year as well. Investing in iraq means investing in the infrastructure rebuilding iraq. Has nothing to do with its currency. If u truly wish to invest in iraq go live there.open up a bakery or an armored taxi service
Rich, I checked out your boy Kaps website. And found exactly what I knew I would. Censorship and banning of people for telling the honest truth, and a lot of nonsense.
Here's a little tip: just because Kap doesn't have a new rate and date every single week, doesn't mean he has any clue what he's talking about. Lets take a look at has "proof there can never be a lop" manifesto, shall we?
"1. Monetary policy was a success talking inflation from 35% or higher to around 7% currently."
Immediate and 100% proof that Kap doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Successful RDs (lops) are done AFTER inflation is under control. If you do it while inflation is still out of control, your currency will just keep inflating and you'll eventually have to lop again which defeats the purpose. These are facts (and actually common sense), they are not debatable. He is wrong.
"2. Any type of currency devaluation (LOP) is considered a failure of monetary policy. Dr. Shabibi has not failed."
Anyone that can do 2nd grade math can tell you that a lop is not a devaluation. It is value neutral. More proof that Kap either doesn't know what he's talking about or is deliberately misleading people.
"3. Lesser value notes in circulation such as 50, 250, 500. Devaluing the larger 3 zero notes would make them worth less than these lesser notes."
This makes no sense whatsoever. The 50 dinar not is currently worth about 4 cents. The 25,000 dinar note, after the (value neutral) lop, will be worth about $21.50. Is Kap saying that the three zero notes are the only ones that are lopped? If so, he's even more clueless than I thought, which is saying a lot. When you RD a currency you RD ALL of it, not some of it. Again, fact, and again, common sense.
"4. Iraq wants the dinar to be an international reserve currency. Cannot devalue the notes in reserve (25,000), circulate them as payment, or traded amongst countries."
1. Since when has wanting something guaranteed it's going to come true? Iraq can want in one hand, and poop in the other, let's see which fills up first.
2. Why would any country want to hold the dinar in reserve? The only thing Iraq exports is oil which is paid for in USD. What you gonna buy from them with your dinar reserve? Sand? And why would you want to hold the currency of an unstable third world toilet like Iraq instead of gold or silver or AUD or CAD?
3. Again, an RD is not a devaluation, so his entire premise is completely wrong. The IQD has just as much chance of being a reserve currency Pre RD as it does post RD.
"5. Iraq holds arguable the second largest oil reserves and is mineral rich. They are too wealthy to not honor the value stated on the notes."
Wealthy? Their per capita GDP is around 4000 USD. That's your idea of wealthy? Someone that makes 4 grand a year is wealthy? Tell you what, you and Kap can come work on my farm, I'll pay you four grand a year (which makes you wealthy, apparently) for the rest of your lives for 40 hours a week worth of honest work. Fair deal? Let me know when you'll show up for work. I'll even give you 5 weeks of vacation a year so you have time to enjoy your "wealth", but no healthcare, you'll be wealthy on your 4 grand a year, so you can darn well pay for that yourself.
And it gets worse from there. His #8 and #10 are actually reasons that it WILL lop, not reasons that it won't, but he's apparently either too dim to understand that or he's just flat out lying to people.
The guy is a total dunce.
Cap is a Pizza cook if I'm not mistaken.