Fans of the “rockumentary” This is Spinal Tap will recall the scene where the band’s guitarist explains that his amplifiers are louder because their volume knobs “go to eleven.” When asked why this is different from having ten as the highest setting, he simply repeats “these go to eleven.”
Most of us have no trouble understanding that changing the units used to measure something does not change the character of the thing being measured. A day doesn’t get longer if you keep track of time in minutes instead of hours, four quarts isn’t more than one gallon, and paying for something in pennies instead of dollars doesn’t make it more expensive.
Yet somehow people continue to claim that a redenomination of the Iraqi currency will have important economic effects. (See this story.) Replacing all the dinars currently in circulation with new ones at a rate of 1,000 to one, thereby “knocking off three zeros,” is supposed to reduce the money supply, for example. Instead of the commercial banks holding 27 trillion dinars as central bank reserves, they will "only" have 27 billion. People won’t have to carry as much money once all the thousand dinar bills have been replaced by one dinar bills. And so on.
It would obviously be ridiculous to insist that an amp that “only” goes to ten would be softer than one that “goes to eleven.” Isn’t the claim that it matters how many zeros there are on a bank note an example of the same fallacy?
Mark, my thought on this issue is that when they discuss removing 3, 000's and increasing the strength of the dinar is that they will remove 3, 000's from the exchange rate. I am no expert but what are your thoughts?
Yes, if they redenominate they will also be removing three zeros from the exchange rate. But there's no reason why the value of anyone's new dinar holdings in dollars should be any different from what they started with.
Suppose you had IQD 1170 before the change and that was worth USD 1. After the change you'd have IQD 1.170. Since the new exchange rate would be IQD 1.17 = USD 1, you'd still have USD 1.
Mark D… this plan and all these articles are plain as day for anyone who understands redenomination. Obviously many don’t understand and they are confused by the articles. It doesn’t help that dinar scammers are intentionally lying to them about the meaning of the articles. So why do you think all the articles are a bit cryptic… and it’s not just a translation issue. Why don’t they come out a explain the plan in black and white, make clear that this will be a new currency, all notes will be exchanged, 1 new dinar will be given every 1000 old dinar turned in?
I have my theory… I think the Gov is intentionally being vague because they don’t want all the speculators dumping dinar and having it all show back up in Iraq for exchange. I think they will implement the redenomination and trap a huge amount of this currency outside of Iraq and never honor it for exchange.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.
Hi Mark,
I respect you,,You helped me notice the screaming value of the ISX back in your Oct. '10 article. But this article seems to have a hidden slam in it,I may be wrong tho.What exactly are you saying here in plain English,please.
It also seems more appropriate that articles of substance be published on this site.Rather than ambiguous allegoric stories without merit or educational value...
Mark..you are way better than this..BTW..Did you open an ISX account yet ?..looks to me like it may be setting up for a new up leg soon..
In the meantime I'm enjoying the ballistic ride of the metals before it implodes again soon..yehaaaa..
Another good longterm bet is Natural gas..now is the time to be in the accumulation phase..Then discharge when the talking heads say it's safe to invest..haha..
Kindest regards.
Peter: I disagree. As my old head of research liked to say, the analyst's job is not only to inform but also to entertain.
Stew: That certainly can't be ruled out. Redenominations designed to wipe out people with large cash holdings have been done before--for example in the Soviet Union in 1947, Burma in the late '80's, and North Korea, I think in 2009. In those cases the victims were local, here they would be foreigners--an even more tempting target.
The main question problem with doing this in Iraq at the moment is that it would be very disruptive locally. I really don't see how the government has the administrative capacity to make it go smoothly. Of course that doesn't mean they won't try.
Perfect example of redenomination. Check out the Central Bank of Nigeria, and look up what they did. Its all in black and white how that all went down. The dinar should be no different.
Wow...say it isn't so..The American Contractor Blogger was right again!!
Peter, this process has been performed many times by a number of different countries. There is nothing different about Iraq, other than that some have found a way to profit very highly from the hyping of the 'what if' scenarios that they create.
The gurus constantly claim that people will become extremely wealthy by the simple exchange of their hard earned money for a 'yet to be accepted' currency from the Middle East. They pump the dinar, offer paid SMS services, push MLM programs, reap the rewards of ad revenue, push Trust Fund packages, Limited Liability Corp's, an Iraqi 'hedge fund' opportunity and anything else that they can find to make a buck.
Does that really sound like people that are planning on being incredibly wealthy from their dinar investment? No, they are simply using the phenomenon of the dinar to profit in any manner in which they can find.
There will be people that will have made money on the IQD. They are the ones that have been involved for several years and have seen the value increase by small increments over that time. Unfortunately, those that have purchased through dinar dealers and paid high premiums over actual value are most likely going to suffer a loss if the dinar redenominates any time soon without Iraq making a significant change to the value per IQD first.
Actually the funny thing about the dinar forums is that people claim that nobody knows what the CBI is going to do. That is not an accurate assessment at all. They have told everyone repeatedly what they are going to do, they simply have not given an actual date as when it will occur.
It has been stated a on numerous occasions that their intention is to reduce the physical currency block to the levels that they last held in the early 80's, 20+ billion IQD. You cannot do that with a 1-to-1 exchange. That simply keeps the level at what it is now.
This would be like taking a slice of pizza that cost you $1. Then dividing that slice into 10 slices, which then have a value of 10 cents. Then putting the 10 slices back together to make the original slice and expecting it to then be valued at $1000, instead of the $1 it was originally worth.
As someone posted before, what the gurus are claiming to happen is that Iraq is miraculously going to go from having a monetary system value in the neighborhood of $50+ billion USD (current), to a monetary system value greater in value than the USD, Yuan, Euro and Yen all totaled together.
umm... does this mean anything to anybody here?
http://edinarfinancial.net/news/?nn=627
I must say that it seems extremely oppressive to dispense such a negative outlook on those that chose to invest in the Iraqi Dinar. Ok, I'll give you this much, the crazy and unbelievable expectation of making millions of dollars on a $1,200.00 investment is by far a "long-shot."
Being so negative as to say that they will "lose money" as a result of pursuing this dream is a bit naive and presumptuous. Let's say that the redenomination occurs. This would reduce the holdings the investor has by 3 zeros while maintaining their value at redenomination. Example: 1,000,000 Dinar valued at .00086 would become 1,000 Dinar valued at .86
You can't convince me or yourselves as intelligent people that Iraq is not poised to gain much value (even after redenomination) in their dinar. It is probable, that their currency after redenomination will begin to rise in value to the US Dollar. It is certainly not that much of a stretch to confidently see the Possability of it rising in time to the value of the Kuwaiti Dinar against the US Dollar. Iraq certainly has the resources and heart to reach that goal in shorter time than we think.
Now if that occurs, wouldn't that bring a gain to these so called pathetic and misguided people?
If I may add one comment!
I believe the scenario I spoke of above, is probably the worst case scenario!
This kind of news...add punch to my thoughts!
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&u=http://www.alsabaah.com/ArticleShow.aspx%3FID%3D6576&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgi-AtGT-BHzpYooqza6yx_HYEq9w
Thanks for reading and giving me the opportunity to respond!
Richard Armenia
Rich, people wouldn't really lose any money on the currency. What would cost them money is due to the premiums they have paid. Buying through a currency dealer can cost you around $1200. So you are paying a premium of about $340, plus whatever shipping fees there are. So someone would have to see an increase in value to the dinar of almost 30% just to break even. You also have to consider the aspect that it will not be free to exchange it back to USD when the time comes, so that will play a role in the costs as well. There might not be the option to wait a long period of time if Iraq implements a redenomination and imposes a time-frame for exchange of the 000 currency set.
This is not said to be 'negative' as you put it but to be realistic as to what will be required to see a profit from this currency speculation from this date forward. Those that have held the dinar for 5-7 years have already seen an appreciation of the currency that more than puts them in the black. People that have purchased in the last three years or so are still in the red since the currency has not improved in value enough to compensate for the premiums.
Those that purchased through banks instead of dinar dealers will most likely have a smaller percentage of appreciation to contend with before seeing a profit due to lower cost of acquisition of the currency.
In regards to Kuwait, do a little research on the two countries beyond the simplistic view of currency value. Then make the comparisons to the other oil producing countries in the region, such as Dubai, Qatar and Saudi Arabia that all have a currency value of ~27 cents US. Take a look at population sizes, amount of oil, GDP, monetary system values, etc...
Brit is absolutely right. Rich, the Dinar may well rise sightly vs the dollar (we're talking 10-30% likely over 5 years not 99,999% overnight that some confused people fantasize about) though it's not in Iraq's interest to have a massively strong currency being a net exporter as they'll then be uncompetitive with the other gulf states (Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, etc), who've all pegged their own currency to the $. Exporters don't want very strong currencies because it makes their products more relatively expensive vs other countries selling the same product - why do you think China kept their value low via a dollar peg?
If people bought Dinar's at market value (say $1 for 1170 Dinar's) and exchanged them back at reasonable cost, they stand to lose very little from the RD (redenomination) itself as the value will be retained after an RD. Simple example : Instead of 1m Dinar's at 1000:1, there will be only 1,000 Dinars at say 1:1. Both cases the $1k worth of currency is retained.
The real problem at the moment is the number of scamsters charging outrageous premiums - some of them over 100% for Dinar's - on the back of the hype. For example, "Dinar Trade" (as hyped and "pumped" by dinarfaqs), charges $180 for 100,000 Dinar ($85 worth!) - that's an outrageous 115% premium. 1m Dinar's are sold at $1,220 (43% premium). On top of that they charge minimum $150 for every 1m Dinar's ($854 worth) to change back.
So if you wanted 1m Dinar's, you'd have to spend $1,220 to get $854 worth of it. After the RD, you'd still have $854 but they'd charge you $150 to change it back, leaving you with $704 worth of currency. 40% of your investment gets swallowed up on outrageous trading fees. The Dinar would need to appreciate over 60% vs the $ for you to just to break even after fees which could take years. The same amount of money put into a 5-year risk-free bond would make most people more money.
Even worse are those who buy smaller denoms. Eg, "Dinar Trade" would charge you $310 for buying 250,000 Dinars ($213 worth). They'd then take $150 minimum fee changing it back leaving you with just $63. Over 80% of your investment has thus been pocketed in exchange fees...
Many, many other Dinar sellers are pulling the same scam - hyping the Dinar (to the point of being a modern day "Tulip Mania") and charging eye-watering fees, commissions and buy/sell spreads.
Thanks Brit and Mike...I realize that there is validity to many of that facts and numbers you post. I do see the beneficiaries of this being the dealers without question. Their capitalists! Who isn't in this country?
I must say after comparing the Iraq situation and their currency, I do believe that their currency is very undervalued! I must say, I could see it (even after redenomination) rising in value significantly. I am aware that not all see it that way. I am not suggesting that an investment in their currency is a "one day pay off." it in my opinion it's a long term investment. There is no other way to look at it! It is not a scam or a get rich quick scheme. However, it does bother me that it is promoted as such, as I'm sure by reading your comments, it bothers you!
In thoughts about these capitalists dealers, Let's look at it like this for a minute:
A scenario, you buy a stock on wall street at 1.00 a share. In short time it drops to .50 cents. You are now in the red by 50% of your investment! Now you have a choice, do I sell and take the loss? Or, do I hold on and make it a longer term investment than I wanted it to be? It's a gamble! I would think most would "hold it" HOPING it will get to 1.25 or 1.50 and bring a gain! Isn't that the same perspective we should take towards those who bought in the red and are hoping to go into the gain territory? I hope these investors get out of the red! I'm not going to bash them because they "bought the dinar." I'm not going to bash the dealers because they capitalized on opportunity.
I have no problem with an analyst looking at this investment and saying; Don't BUY! I do have a problem with tearing apart the whole thing buy calling the investors naive and the dealers crooks! JMO
Sorry but many of the dealers, IMO, are crooks. They are paying to put their advertisements up on the exact same sites that are pumping the millionaire overnight scenario, knowing full well that it is not a possibility. JMO, but I think that goes beyond simply being unethical. People buying dinar are currency speculators, not investors - and many of them are naive. They are trusting in the words of people they have never met and may have listened to on a conference call and making financial decisions based on such without doing any homework on their own. Their naivety is what these pumpers are preying on. People don't even stop to question why, if these pumpers are expecting a windfall and to become hugely wealthy, why are they trying to nickel and dime their followers through MLM's, LLC's, trust fund packages, hedge fund, sms texting services, etc? The fact that these pumpers and dinar dealers are trying to generate as much revenue as they possibly can while promoting this currency should be sending red flags in every direction.
The problem that I see with the holding of the currency long enough to see it appreciate is that we do not yet know how long they will leave the 000 currency set in the system before demonetizing it. It won't remain legal tender forever.
In regards to their currency being 'very undervalued', it depends on what you mean by 'very'. Right now they have a currency that is roughly covered 100% by gold and foreign currency reserves. So there is some room for increasing the currency value, but I believe their primary concern is stability of the currency at the moment and they are in a very good position at the moment to keep it stable.
Horrible analogy… if this were a stock and the company was making up lies like the dealers are… they would be thrown in jail.
It could be compared to a penny stock… pink sheet… where they are allowed to make any kind of claim they want. It’s a pretty established fact that the penny stock world is full of scammers and crooks. Same as the dinar.
I’d love to see some of the numbers you found when you did your comparisons that lead you to believe the dinar is undervalued. Can you give a few examples?
You are aware the IMF disagrees with you and has stated the dinar is neither under nor overvalued based on fundamentals.
Most of the original dinar forums were actually owned and operated by dinar dealers. Certain posters were actually paid to make a number of posts per day. As the thing grew bigger and bigger these paid posters and some wanna be gurus realized they could take their cult followings off to their own forums and make more money than the dealers were paying them.
Stew - I think a valid comparison to shares of a corporation would be easy to show...
Basically a company, let's call them 'Iraq' has a base of shares totalling 25 billion. They completely flood the market by introducing 100,000% more shares, now giving them a total of 25 trillion shares. They give press conferences talking about going back to the grand old days of when their stocks numbered 25 billion shares, so they will consolidate at a rate of 1000:1. Some people take to the airwaves and internet, pushing those stocks for a premium price, making themselves a healthy profit. The direction that the company is taking is known wide and far, yet those who blind themselves with greed refuse to understand that no company could value its bloated share base the same level as it did when it was a much more streamlined system.
Instead they buy into the false dreams held up by their brokers and others, who are trying to simply keep their attention - figuring if these people would believe that scenario they could easily fleece many of them for more through promoting other products and services they know of.
This is exactly what is happening with the dinar and the pumping. Is the dinar a scam, NO! Is the manner in which many are selling it and promoting others to get their friends and family involved a scam, ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!
If you were awake just a little you would see that the Fed's control what is happening in Iraq, the Central Bank is owned by the same banksters...sad thing is most Americans think the Federal Reserve is American...not even close. Once you see what they are up to you would see what is going on with the RV. Raising of the 000's is just getting the larger denoms out of Iraq circulation, then releasing the lower denoms to exist with the larger. The RV will happen and the US will cash in the Large denoms of the people here which is a small percentage of all the Dinars out there, and the US will now buy up the oil at a cheap rate with the Dinars, which will be taken out of circulation over time. This isn't rocket science if you know the players, this is what they do...fund wars from both sides and profit anyway they can. The US also gets a nice chunk from people with the CGT and the banks also will have fees from people cashing in. They are not going to make 25k Dinars into one Dinar..they would be flattened, GW Bush (criminal) said the Iraq war will not cost the US a cent....what do you think he meant.
If you believe they are going to devalue the large Dinars then you must also believe the US just got Bin Laden..(for the 9th time). Wake Up.
Classic dinaraholic
Awake 2011 - take a look at the numbers involved. First, it has not been said that a 25k note would be worth a dollar, but that a 25k note would be worth the value of a new 25 note and that both would carry the same value, which is currently ~21.50.
The idea that people pose as inevitable is that Iraq has to come out at a minimum of $0.86 and honor their current notes at that rate. Simply looking at the world economy one can see that is simply not a possibility.
Iraq has ~$20 trillion current value of known recoverable oil, well less than $1 trillion known recoverable natural gas. Yet people are trying to make a case that Iraq will have a monetary system a few times larger than the values of their two largest natural resources. Not to mention that the oil and natural gas is not even an asset that is owned by the CBI to monetize for their currency in the first place.
You are the one that should wake up if you believe that Iraq, the #4 most corrupt nation in the world, is going to be given the keys to destroy the entire world economy. What I mean by that is simply look at the global monetary levels, and what is being proclaimed 'has to happen' would give Iraq the absolute largest monetary base value in the world - more than the US, China, EU, Japan all combined! Saudi Arabia has more oil, a much higher production rate and a monetary system valued ~$300 billion USD - yet Iraq is going to come out with a monetary system valued a few hundred times that of the Saudi's?
So, Awake 2011, wake up yourself, you are merely dreaming you are awake...
Awake 2011 : "GW Bush (criminal) said the Iraq war will not cost the US a cent….what do you think he meant."
He meant he was going to basically steal their oil and sell it for dollars to replace dollars spent - a plan which fell apart when numerous attacks on infrastructure caused Iraq's oil output to plummet to below that of Algeria! And America doesn't buy oil in Dinar's - they buy it in dollars. Where do you think the term "petro-dollar" comes from?
Awake 2011 : "They are not going to make 25k Dinars into one Dinar..they would be flattened"
Um no. What they will do is make 25k Dinar's into 25 Dinar's and raise the value of the currency by same from 1175:1 to 1.175:1. They won't be "flattened" at all because that's exactly what has happened in dozens of other countries including neighboring Turkey (on which the CBI have openly stated they're basing experience on) and oil-rich Venezuela (which at over 2000:1 ratio was even twice as weak as the Dinar).
Ultimately, the Iraq Central Bank have openly and repeatedly stated last month that it will be a redenomination (lop) not an "RV". Most sane people take their word over that of a few scamsters with a 100% track record of lies and failure and getting anything right.
Awake 2011 : "If you believe they are going to devalue the large Dinars then you must also believe the US just got Bin Laden"
Before telling others to "wake up", you might want to make sure you're not experiencing a lucid dream yourself. First of all, "devaluing" large Dinar's will only occur if they start printing more of them. I suspect what you actually meant was "redenominate" the Dinar - and yes that's exactly what they're going to do and have openly officially said so:-
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/04/14/iraq-central-bank-to-remove-3-zeroes-from-dinar/comment-page-1/#comment-50283
Brit is right. There's more disinfo / propaganda flowing round the Dinar forums which is now verging on retardation. One recent absurd claim was that the US will buy Iraq oil cheaply at $31 because that's what oil used to be back in the 80's!
FACT : Iraq has 115bn barrels of oil. At $31 per barrel, that works out to a value of just $3.56tn for every drop of oil that has ever and will ever exist in Iraq. And that's if they literally gave every drop of oil solely to the USA using not a single drop of it themselves to power vehicles, etc, and revert back to a stone-age lifestyle living in hand-built mud-huts (because they have no oil left for vehicles because they gave it all to foreign gamblers). And people swear that it will somehow make a 1:1 "RV" $27tn monetary supply larger than USA, Europe, China, etc, combined, by a 3rd-world debt-ridden, corruption-rife country smaller than Canada likely, and turn Iraq into a Mid-Eastern Switzerland. Um, no...
One thing you forgot Mike is that 27 trillion dinar is not the full amount of their monetary base, it is just the physical portion of it - you would have to add another 22 trillion or so dinars to get their actual monetary system value.
People don't want to look at the fact that at current gas prices, with Iraq's revised oil reserves of 173 billion barrels of oil, that they still have less than $20 trillion USD as a current lifetime value. They refuse to notice that the oil is not the property of the CBI to place a value on in the first place. The natural gas in Iraq is worth less than $1 trillion USD - but they all swear that Iraq is going to support a monetary supply greater than that of most countries on the planet combined...
I know I originally bought into the hype - but after doing quite a bit of research I now know that's all it was, hype. It won't happen that way - still a potential for a small profit, but nothing to the extreme of what the forums and chat sites have proclaimed the past few years...
Dinar Trade shutting down shop... will be interesting to see how "gurus" spin this.
When the redenomination/lop happens... there will no one to sell dinar back to.
Didn't take long. The claim is he and his family are in danger.
The thruth is they are not in danger now... but once this scam blows up they might well be subject to a few threats. He's made his money and now he's going to pull a disapearing act.
Remember all the talk of the cash-in offices... what a piece of scum.
Sorry Brit....you must look into who is actually running things..the Federal Reserve and their minions, the Elites. The Fed is not American, never was and until you grasp that you can't understand what these people do. Rothschilds alone are worth more than 500 trillion, so grasp that. Then the Rockefellers at 2-300 trillion and the Queen and so on...they rule the planet and have Central Banks in all but a few countries...Libya...oh they are there now...lol, and Iran, oh they are next...it is all about world control of the monetary system and then the NWO goes into place. People keep quoting oil reserve value Iraq has, they havent begun yet...they have over 60% of land yet explored for oil, add the natural gas, the vast different companies that will flow into Iraq...real estate, water, hotels, ect...Iraq will soon wipe their butts with gold paper or US dollars for that matter...the US holds over 3 trillion Dinars and will be cashing in the 3% which is the little peoples investment and then buying the oil up to control it. If Bernake can print trillions for bailouts here, they can do it anywhere...research fractional banking and you may learn something. You people make it sound like nobody has ever profited from currency trading before...the banks and governments have been doing it for centuries...only difference now is we have the internet and can now take part.There is profit to be made here and be it 10% or 200% or more...that is the yet to be seen, but it will happen. If you don't think so sell your damn Dinars and go elsewhere.
As for “redenominate” the Dinar, yes they are bringing lower denoms out to COEXIST with the others until they pull (raise) the large denoms out of circulation. Iraq is not running this show..wake up.
Awake 101, there is a potential for a small profit on the dinar - but what is being purported on the forums and chat rooms about making large sums of money from hold small amounts of dinar is absolute garbage. Those that have held dinar for several years are already looking at a 200% profit, those that have purchased in the last couple of years will take time to see a profit. But what is being promoted with the dinar is the get rich quick overnight scenario, and that is not going to happen...
Just like the pumpers, you claim the US government owns trillions of dinar - the problem is they nor even you can back up your statement in the slightest...
You're right, they will redenominate the currency where a 10,000 dinar note will hold the same value as a new 10 dinar note. This is a process that has happened many times in and in many countries - so do some reading on the subject before you try and speak of it - because your posts show you have not a clue...
Sorry that your living your life with blinders on, but your theory states no banks or persons have ever profited large from Currency trading. Well why not close the markets then? Penny stocks never happen either in your world? Tell that to Microsoft shareholders.
You stay asleep, I know I will have at the worst...a 300% profit and I am fine with that.
Wake-up I agree with you....but you won't get anywhere with the shills...they are to busy helping empty the pockets of the soon to be retired folks. Another notch in the financial belt for those who worship money. Also "the simple will confound the wise" (wise in thier own eyes) I am sure we will see the out come soon.
Awake, nobody is stating that there is no potential for profit... People that have held the dinar for several years are already in the position to sell and see a profit.
However, for those that are just now purchasing dinar, or have in the past two years or so, when the rate has been 1170 to the dollar, are going to need a lot of luck on their side to even break even.
You have no basis to proclaim that there will be even a 300% profit from the purchase of dinar at the moment - when the currency is redenominated they MIGHT increase the rate - or they MIGHT not.
So you cannot state "at worst I will have a... a 300% profit", unless of course you have held the dinar for several years. If you have anything that shows actual evidence that they will redenominate and raise the value 300%, by all means put it forward - otherwise you look like every other idiot that is pumping the Iraqi dinar with baseless claims...
Oh, and I never stated that banks or people have never made money on currency speculation... But you are referring to this like it is an 'in the bag' situation without anything to back up your statements whatsoever... That is the act of a pumper pure and simple...
Ok Brit....we bow to your superior knowledge...where can we send our Dinars for you? I have no idea what a pumper is or do I care, I bought mine from a Mall here at Continental Currency Exchange which are in many Malls here. I pay $100 for 100K IQD and that's it. I don't join Dinar sellers clubs, I am Awake..period. I know who is controlling this whole scenario...research the "Marshall Plan" and maybe you can grasp it, but I doubt it. You go on believing they just got Bin Laden and everything is ok, and watch the next false flag in ...oh maybe Chicago or L.A. by Pakistan or AL-CIAda, sorry, but you are not awake enough to convince someone who is. If you think you are then lets go....
That’s hilarious Awake. Did you research the “Marshall plan”?
I don’t think you did, or you would be aware that Germany lopped their currency.
Stew - have you ever noticed that the people that make the claims of high ROI's cannot actually point to anything that validates their statements? Nor can they point to even one example of a currency redenominating and tripling in value at the same time. They simply read things from other people, then try to pass them on as their own ideas. The only problem is that they cannot validate the statements because they never had the comprehension to begin with.
Awake, believe what you choose to believe, nobody can stop you from doing that. But before you ask for an intelligent conversation on a subject, you should really try and show yourself capable. Which in regards to economics and the dinar, you have not shown anything close to intelligent conversation.
What I find astounding is how they come in and chastise us for not doing our research and not understanding what is happening. Yet the points they make obviously didn’t come from them doing any real research because the points are made up fantasy by dinar dealers and their pumpers.
I have noticed that as well. Every so often you get people that come on here and try and make a point that Iraq will shy away from the history of how this very event has happened before, yet offer nothing to support their statements. That is why I state that Awake is incapable of offering an intellectual debate on this subject, but simply regurgitates pieces of what he has read from other people. People like him know that they can not actually support their stance, so they attempt to call those that oppose their assertions ridiculous names. It is basically the only defense mechanism that they have, because actually using facts and mathematics to back their stance is an impossibility.
Frank 26 now pumps fr DinarBanker now that Dinartrade packed it in.
Did you notice some of the pumpers just quit at the same time Ali shut down. How obvious that they were being paid by Ali to pump dinar. There are other pumpers out there who use to work for Ali.
Ali was the big ringleader and he really pissed a bunch of people off when he recently came out and said anyone who believes in a big RV is on drugs.
Stew,
where did you see that Ali said believers are on drugs?
I need to show it to some believers!!
Ali states clearly no big RV. 4/10/11
http://theiraqidinar.com/2011/04/11/g-e-t-conf-call-interview-w-ali-dinar-trade-41011/
[Ali/DinarTrade] it was never like that, people who say it will go to $4.23–what the ‘hell’ does he know, I would like to know what he’s on?
Stew, you missed the best reference to drug usage... lol
[Caller] Q: Thanks for debunking these fools that have been saying it is going to RV at $3, $4, $5 or $6…
[Ali/DinarTrade] Sir, I have said that always said that I don’t do drugs, but what drug are you on to think this, it’s amazing, and how could somebody believe you? And I’ve always said that, it doesn’t make sense.
Yep... Ali calls these guys "drugged fools". Then a week or two later shuts down saying him and his family are in danger.
stew---ever thought that ali wanted out to avoid having to payout r.v.
Please tell me you are joking Ronnie.
Stew...I'll take this one.
Ronnie,
For starters....there aint gonna be no RV!!
Ali is probably blowing out of the country to avoid Federal charges of cospiracy to commit fraud by hiring pumpers to spew bullshit lies about the ridiculous RV that will never happen. I know these scammers are very slick , but you never know.....all it takes is one guy to rat them out and get a RICO charge or somekind of rackateering charge.They will all fold sooner than later.
Dinar Trades address... 100 Wilshire Blvd Suite 950
Google it. It's not even real office. It's a "Virtual Office"
Remember all the bluster about the cash-in offices he was going to open all over the world. LOL... what a scammer.
stew, you and LZ need to take a hike. bet you don't have kids, but if you do i'm sure they don't believe in santa clause. how negative can two people get. what do you'll do for a living. i know there are a lot of negatives out there, a lot of news both ways, but you two take the cake. i don't think either one of you are experts and i know you keep up with the blogs to try to keep all of us informed. you guys are something else. all of you out there that believe, don't give the guys an afterthought. the r.v. may or maynot happen but to listen to these know it alls is saddening. keep your dream and maybe one day we will be laughing without them all the way to the bank. no disrespect to your knowledge stew and Lz. you'll are a pair of chumps
and Lz, aint aint in the dictionary.