A local newspaper in Georgia, USA, reports that some local residents are buying Iraqi dinars in cash form, in the hope of profiting from a revaluation of the currency.
According to the Moultrie Observer, people are buying boxes of crisp Iraqi dinars that look fresh off the printing press. It goes on to quote a local commodities trader as saying he could possibly think of worse investments than Iraqi money at this time, but would be hard pressed to do so:
"If you want to make a wild investment, I'd buy Russian rubles ... It (the dinar) would be one of the most foolhardy investments you can make."
Meanwhile, CNBC columnist Kelley Holland says the dinar is the subject of a variety of scams, and regulators and watchdogs are sounding alarms:
"If someone has been telling you about the rosy prospects for the dinar, please, please, be careful. It's almost certainly too good a story to be true."
On Thursday, Komo News in Seattle, Washington, ran a news report on the dinar and interviewed one woman who had actually bought what she believes to be Iraqi dinars on the internet. You can find the full video report on the next page ...
If you are looking at the Vietnamese Dong for investment, there is no better time than right now. The Dong has been unhttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gifder pressure for sometime now but the overall picture has remained compelling. With a young population, which boasts of 90% literates, labor cheaper than China and a variety of raw material exports – the Vietnamese market is a good option for investors who are prepared to deal with slight volatilities. With the World Trade Organization accepting Vietnam as a member, it can now compete on an equal footing with other export-oriented economies.
Now Hoang most of what you and I are saying is speculative AND that's a fact.I'm not speaking in the absolute and no one else on here really can either.Many are trying to convince folks that they know but they really don't know.Folks like Stew,john,j,george are all pumpers and gurus as well.Even though I believe some are one in the same.Trying to convince a person of onesided info will never work with some of us.
"Now my question to you is it a currency that’s legally traded and can be gotten legally????"
Most are. But there's a big difference between saying "the Dong may appreciate" and ""for every $ you will receive $20,000 (Dong) in an RV". The latter is false information. There is no Vietnam rv the say Iraqi Dinar sellers are selling it on some calls. Central bank chief Nguyen Van Binh clarified it so many times on TV, newspapers, banking events, etc.
Do you understand what he says here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T1t8Ck6OUw
If so, then tell us what he says. LOL. Do people on your calls speak Vietnamese? Or just copy & paste only positive third-hand random facts like Vietnam growth & unemployment and leave out the other more important half like inflation and money supply (which is 3x higher than growth) which affects currency far, far more?
I do know what I'm talking about. I still live there part of the year!
And you appear to not understand what forums are for. Just because you have a right to invest doesn't mean others can't talk about it. Telling people not to talk just because you bought some is not honesty either.
"Now Hoang most of what you and I are saying is speculative AND that’s a fact." - Doc
Are you calling me a liar? Are you saying Vietnamese people are stupid? People think we have no clue about our own currency in our own country??!
My facts were genuine facts -
FACT - Vietnam’s economy is growing at 5.8% which is 0.7% less than it target of 6.5%. This is lowest since 2009. Our economy has slowed.
FACT - But inflation is 10-16%. That means the real economy growth as priced in other currencies like USD $ is -4.2 to -10.2%
FACT - Exports are equiv to $96.8bn and imports are equiv to $103.7bn. So we have negative balance of payments too. That means we import more than export.
FACT - The Dong redenominated in the 80's and banknotes were swapped 1:10. I LIVED THROUGH IT AND REMEMBER DOING IT (the 'lop')! There is nothing to "speculate" about it.
HOANG I have never said that,you are now making a statement to something I never ask.I not once hinted or indicated that's what I believe pro or con.Iask a very simple question and you answered me.Where did I say you couldn't talk?I do television and radio sir now can you understand that?And btw you're NOT the only one that has contacts or is connected to vietnam.As I said earlier ppl with a one-sided view will always show their hand.Whether I copied and paste info or you fellows post links it's all the same.Making references is all the same,anyone who is an analytical thinker can comprehend that.All that y'all are saying is NOT in the ABSOLUTE CATEGORY so y'all need to deal with some of the info out there that opposes y'alls views and i'm not talking about the gurus and the pumpers either.Apparently that's all STEW,GEORGE,JMASTERS And barry knows.But there are economist that disagree with y'alls views
LOL y'all are hilarious with y'alls accusations and one sided views.What's so sad yall can't see yourselves.AMAZING what folks will say and do just to be right.ALL of y'all have the same pattern.Makes me wonder if all of yall aren't the same person.NO OBJECTIVENESS.
"Where did I say you couldn’t talk?" - Doc
Not me but others - In your many past comments including silly name-calling. All you did was try to shut other people up. It is so obvious. Look at your own comments here:-
“Ya’ll are dumb! Y’all are some ignorant folks. Yall are STUPID AND IGNORANT. Man y’all are so full of yourself it’s pathet. i Guess to get what I’m saying.lol legible or not.. u r probably somewhere in a basement eating captain crunch cereal. they are wanna bes LOL so full of yourself. Now I can barely talk. amart guy. We all r unlearned,stupid,misinformed. Oh I sound scared,y becuz wolves travel in packs,Btw what is the debate anyway????? the circus clowns and kids that’s just what u fellows sound like. this is therapy for me Blah,blah blah.ya’ll the same guy. Hopefully my comments will bring some enlightenment.”
Hardly "analytical thinking". You are a very two faced person - acting "professional" one minute and like a screaming child the next. You are not a respectful honest person at all.
"I do television and radio sir now can you understand that?" - Doc
What TV show are you on? I've seen over and over "Dong "RV" advertised as meaning "earn $20k from $1 so buy some from me!") on similar radio calls. It is false information.
"Apparently that’s all STEW,GEORGE,JMASTERS And barry knows" - Doc
They are right though of how currencies work though. When you have 1,000,000,000,000,000 of notes circulating, you cannot swap 1:1 for anything unless other currencies devalue to the same.
We had horrible, horrible inflation. 700% = prices rise faster than banknotes can be printed to match in some years! That's why many Vietnamese use other currencies. Dong isn't under-valued - it's been victim of massive inflation like Indonesia & Zimbabwe.
Not one person on here who has an opposing view from yall has ever stated they was going to make thousands and mil not a one.lolBut yall have stated over and over again folks would lose there money and that they are ignorant,stupid and unlearn becuz they have invested in a real currency.I've noticed u smart guys will never admit or deny that yall have dong and dinar.Now of course anyone could lie,but I think I do know the truth.lolJUST IN CASE it does pop I don't wanna miss out.lol yall r hypocrites.
Again STEW I mean HOANG.LOL Yall are some of the same good try.lol
"Again STEW I mean HOANG.LOL Yall are some of the same good try.lol"
What are you talking about?!?
Dead give away is the pattern and the wording in which one's write.lol Amazing how things are being address that never was mention,And all of a sudden a stranger comes along and picks up where others left off.One of the oldest tricks in the book.lol Anyone can read what a persons write and analysis it as being one of the same.They can spin it twist it or whatever,but the pattern is still the same.Written lingo is not that difficult to profile especially with folks who are obsessed with knowing it all and being right all the time with no possibility of being wrong.That can be classified as a compulsive behavior as well.Accusing others of what they are constantly displaying as to validate their discourse.Not knowing the other parties are quite advance in reading between the lines.Reverse psychology is very effective when dealing with those who have this deep rooted behavior pattern in the quest to see what really is the person or persons agenda.Whether it's sincerity or a behavior pattern.In my summary and case study here,is that the dong and dinar are real genuine currency with a very low value at this particular point.Very speculative,but their are those who have listen and for whatever reason are obsess with these gurus and others who dare pump as they say these rates which is speculative or lying too.Some of us are very clear on both sides.We didn't invest in what guru have said neither did we not invest because of a opposing view.But I invested before I even knew what all this guru business is or even pumpers.I understand just a little bit how foreign currency works now and I and many of my other friends are enjoying the experience.Just to see how all of this will pan out will be very exciting.I'm encouraging folks to invest in the dong and dinar and believe or not many are doing just that after doing their due diligence.
I'm going to make one statement and then wait to hear from Stew, Barry, LZ et al. After that I'm unsubscribing from this thread because, quite frankly, Doc you're blowing up my email box.
Now, Dr Sinan al-Shabibi the Governor of the Central Bank of Iraq has stated on numerous occasions that he wants to revalue the IQD at, at least 1USD:1IQD. The other PhD's on his team travel Iraq and give educational talks at universities, they and the Deputy Governor, have been known to state that after the ReValue the IQD will reach a pre-war level of around 3.33USD:1IQD.
So, here is my question: The very man in charge of this is a PhD with letters in Economics from the University of Bristol. There are at least 3 other PhD's on staff at CBI. That being said, how is it that he says one thing and you guys say another? Is he wrong or having a flight of fancy?
Just curious as to your take on this.
I haven't written before today. What are you talking about??? Yourself??
http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/acc_e/a1_vietnam_e.htm
The General Council approved Viet Nam's accession package on 7 November 2006. Viet Nam became the WTO's 150th member on 11 January 2007.
Their currency has sunk 25%-30% since then.
Doc….
No one has said the dinar or the dong are not legitimate currencies. They can fluctuate in value just like any other currency. All we have said is that a huge 100,000% RV is impossible and anyone claiming otherwise is either severely ignorant of economics and currencies, or they are part of this huge scam to take peoples money.
Iraq has said they will redenominated and delete 3 zeros. That is a lop/redenomination. It is not a big RV as gurus claim. That is what we claim.
You are having a fit over that. You say we are stupid and don’t understand. So obviously you are implying Iraq and Vietnam can RV 100,000% or more. If you don’t think that then you should have no problem with what we say.
So here it is y'all have encourage me even the more to do another radio talk show on this subject.Btw I spoke to ALI And he would love to be a part of another show.PPL are calling from everywhere to invest.Some are professionals with all types of degrees I even spoke with another private banker off the record and he can see the possibility.One friend of mine is a V.P of B OF A and he contacted his foreign exchange dept on my behalf.So I think u fellows are just a little too late with your one-sided views.Becuz the DOC does have friends and info that y'all absolutely don't have.Now go right ahead and lie,deceive,misquote and spew venom.NONE of it is really working because many of us at the end of the day will make our own decisions base upon our personal research and not some folks sitting on a computer eating captain crunch cereal.COMEDY AT ITS BEST.CRUNCH,CRUNCH,CRUNCH.Could try fellows!LOL
[Offensive comment removed]
Boomer… what he is talking about is redenominating the dinar and giving it a value of near $1. That means all current dinar will be turned in and for every 1000 you turn in you will get 1 new dinar. They have been openly discussing this plan for years now. That in itself should be a dead give away to you that what they are talking about is a simple lop. No gain in value. Countries that lop do this all the time. Very normal to talk about it for years before dong it.
On the other hand… it’s standard procedure for countries deny and lie to hide raising their currency ½ of one percent because they don’t want speculators to take advantage of it. So do you really think Iraq is openly talking about a 100,000% RV for years in advance giving people the opportunity to get all they want before the event. If you do believe that’s what they are doing then why is the dinar sinking in value? The street rate has dropped the last six months. They are doing everything they can just to try to get the street rate back to the official rate of 1166. If this RV talk was true, or if people believed it even to be a possible rumor. The street rate of the dinar would soar in value. It would already be trading on the streets for over 50 cents a dinar if people really thought it would be RVd to a $1 soon.
boomer6966 - "Now, Dr Sinan al-Shabibi the Governor of the Central Bank of Iraq has stated on numerous occasions that he wants to revalue the IQD at, at least 1USD:1IQD. The other PhD’s on his team travel Iraq and give educational talks at universities, they and the Deputy Governor, have been known to state that after the ReValue the IQD will reach a pre-war level of around 3.33USD:1IQD.
So, here is my question: The very man in charge of this is a PhD with letters in Economics from the University of Bristol. There are at least 3 other PhD’s on staff at CBI. That being said, how is it that he says one thing and you guys say another? Is he wrong or having a flight of fancy?
Just curious as to your take on this."
Hi Boomer. What has happened is people have twisted and mis-translated official statements to read what they want to read. Many sites also use revalue and redenominate as meaning the same thing. Look on Wikipedia and you'll see they claim Zimbabwe "revalued" their currency. They didn't, they redenominated. Vietnam redenominated. Turkey redenominated. yet you'll sites that say they all "revalued". Many people incorrectly mix up the terms which just adds to the confusion.
Here are the original quotes from the Central Bank of Iraq. "RV" isn't mentioned once (that label just gets slapped on in pumper forums headlines), "redenomination" dozens of times:-
April 13th 2011 – “Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Tuesday that the project of Iraqi Dinar re-denomination consisting of removing three zeroes is close to completion. The re-denomination project is believed to be a strategic plan that will be passed to the ministerial council and Parliament once complete. Iraqi economists believe the re-denomination of Iraqi Dinar will not have a major influence on the purchasing power of the Iraqi Dinar which the government has hopes high on it.”
April 16, 2011 – “An advisor of the Iraqi Central Bank, Dr. Mohammed Saleh appearance that the bank adheres to its policy regarding the removal of three zeros from Iraqi dinar traded at present… To that, the adviser to the Central Bank of the appearance of Mohammed Saleh, said that such fears are unwarranted, and that the economic situation in Iraq is good and able to withstand the application of this project, and that this experience had previously been applied in countries such as Turkey, which has by deleting six zeros from the currency before the period is not too distant future.”
June 24th 2011 – “Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Thursday that it is planning to delete the zeros from the Iraqi currency. The new currency will be printed after deleting the zeros and will include the Kurdish language in addition to the Arabic language. It will bear as well photos of Iraq’s civilizations and patrimony in addition to symbols of Iraqi intellectuals and figures”, Saleh noted. On June 19, Iraq’s Central Bank Governor Sanan Al Shebeibi affirmed during the meeting of independent commissions with Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki that the bank is preparing all requirements needed to replace the Iraqi Currency.”
July 2nd 2011 – “The draft of the new currency will be put to a vote in the House of Representatives and if approved by Council House of Representatives, the redenomination project will be implemented. New banknotes will be introduced with dual Kurdish language designs. The Iraqi currency change will not have any effect on the international value of the Iraqi dinar and economy“
Nov 28th 2011 – “Deputy chairman of the ICB Dr Muzher Saleh said the bank is working to issue the new currency in addition to coins in both Arabic and Kurdish. This will include a new 50 Dinar bill with a value of $43 (50,000 current note Dinar).”
Feb 21st 2012 – “AKnews reports that the process of removing three zeros from the Iraqi dinar and replacing current banknotes with new ones will begin in September. The announcement, which will see the Iraqi Central Bank (ICB) re-print 30 trillion dinars ($26 billion), was made despite government fear over the project. The move to delete the zeros will reduce the number of bank notes in circulation and simplify Iraq’s payment system.”
“The change that will take place with the Iraqi currency will change the face value of the dinar and not the real value as measured by the value of Iraqi dinar against the dollar and gold,” Sami Atrushi, Iraqi Finance Committee
“Mahma Khalil, Member of the Iraqi Parliament and official spokesperson of the Economic Committee stated that the new bill will be printed by a European company and introduced to the market gradually and in a well-planned schedule to ensure it will not result in shocks and would not have a negative impact on the market,” explained MP Khalil. He added the exchange rate between the new banknotes and the old ones would be 1:1,000.”
Pretty self-explanatory - direct from the people actually in charge of the process. And very consistent.
Boomer - As for the pre-war Dinar value question:-
The Iraqi Dinar was introduced in 1932 replacing the Indian rupee (used due to British occupation in WW1) at a rate of 1 Dinar per 13.5 rupees. It was pegged par the British £ then the peg was switched to the US$ at a rate of 1 Dinar = $2.8. In the 1970's, the Dinar rose to 1 Dinar = 3.3778 which remained until the Gulf War. This peg value was mostly artificial, evidence of which lies in the fact the black market rate was 6x higher ($1 = 3 Dinars) meaning no-one was willing to pay it's 1:3 *over-valued* arbitrary peg in reality even with Iraq's oil industry in full flow. This value was using what are called "Swiss Dinars" (due to Swiss printing plates used).
After sanctions, Swiss printing was no longer available and new inferior quality "Saddam Dinars" were introduced and due to massive printing, they were rapidly devalued to below 1000:1 via the same ordinary chronic inflation that affects many other countries. Between October 15, 2003 and January 15, 2004, the Coalition Provisional Authority issued new Iraqi dinar coins and notes, with the notes printed using modern anti-forgery techniques, to "create a single unified currency that is used throughout all of Iraq and will also make money more convenient to use in people's everyday lives (and partly to get rid of Saddam's face on the notes / coins as a political measure). Old banknotes were exchanged for new at a one-to-one rate, except for the Swiss dinars, which were exchanged at a rate of 150 new dinars for one Swiss dinar. This is the real 150:1 "RV" process related to the "old $3 value" that's already has been done and took place years ago! The reason why the Kurds exchanged "Swiss Dinars" for NID's (New Iraqi Dinar's) at a rate of 150:1 was because their currency wasn't inflated whereas the Saddam Dinars exchange 1:1 was because they were inflated.
The sad truth is, most people who use this 1 Dinar = $3 of the old Swiss Dinar as an "RV" benchmark don't even realize that the "RV" old-to-new value correction they're waiting for already took place in 2003 when holders of the old Swiss Dinar changed them up at a rate of 150:1 for the NID (New Iraq Dinar)! ie, they were given 150 New Dinars for each old Swiss Dinar they handed in, whereas the Saddam Dinar were exchanged only for 1:1 for the NID to correct the value discrepancy between the old 3:1 Swiss Dinar (long been demonetized) and they never never had a 3:1 value NID notes (which everyone owns today).
I'll repeat that : The over-printed NID (and Saddam Dinars) have never ever had any exchange rate even remotely approaching 3:1. Only the pre-1991 "Swiss Dinars" did, and that 150:1 "RV" already took place back in 2003, long before most modern Dinar speculators even bought NID's post 2003. The only way of getting back to near parity vs the $ is via a lop. There's simply no 3:1 value to "restore" the Dinar to via an RV because the NID's never had that value in the first place.
The NID's you hold now - have never ever had a value of $3 since they were introduced in 2003. Iraq may well issue a further redenomination in the future, to bring the zeroes back in line with other currencies (a "lop"), but the "RV" people many are waiting for of the old widely used Swiss Dinar to the New unified Iraqi Dinar already happened 9 years ago... Unless your Iraqi notes have a picture of Saddam Hussein on, they've never been at $3. The Dinar was devalued to over 1000:1 even back in 1997 - under Clinton and before the Kosovo war.
Most of this is just confused nostalgia. Like people pointing to $50 gold prices under Nixon and saying "Oh the $ must RV by 30:1 because it was worth 30x more vs gold 30 years ago" whilst ignoring the very obvious massive increase in money supply & inflation that's precisely the cause of the devaluation. You cannot take modern NID's with a whopping 72tn circulation back in time any more than you can take the modern day $ back to the 1960's gold standard.
Hope this answers your questions.
Thanks to all for your responses. The only issue I have with any of them is your last comment Barry. Not arguing, but the $3.33 value has been stated by CBI, not pumpers. So is that just hopeful speculation for the morale of the Iraqi's? That's who the statements were made to, not us via the western press.
My question to you fellows is how come what Boomer has stated is false and everything you fellows are saying is true.Where is the facts that DR.Shabibi is lying????Now will all the info yall POST from those with an opposing view,could they as well as yall be totally WRONG???
Doc, in your past posts you wrote fairly well. What happened? What are you trying to say here? I'm not bashing, I just don't understand what you are saying.
Barry. The Saddam dinars didn't come out until 1990. They were never worth $3. The dinar was already below 50 cents per dinar by 1990. Saddam demanded the officail rate remain at $3 until he was kicked out... but that rate was laughed at. The only dinar that were ever worth the 3 rate were the swiss dinar.
Since we are the same person… I guess I’m correcting myself now.
Now I will switch to my Vietnamese persona and continue.
The 30 and 70 trillion dinars has never been validated and can't be validated.Most of the info on both sides is speculative but some folks will never admit it.Thanks Boomer my point that i've been making over the last few days is that why would anyone try to tear down anyone else views when theirs are speculation too. Throwing around a lot of information from a country who was run by a dictator who had set up his own rules.They don't even have systems in place to validate the numbers they are constantly thrown around as if to say my info is facts.Look at the infrastructure of the country.Their money supply is over exaggerated by pumpers on the other side when it comes to the dinar and that's my realistic opinion.Many economist have stated the same thing.Lets be honest with one another and be fair as well WE ALL ARE SPECULATING with no actual facts.Could it RV OR COULD LOP?WHO really knows at this point what it will DO?NONE OF US SMART GUYS.LOL
What don't you understand boomer????
Thanks STEW 4 BEING HONEST abt your aliases.That's progress.
This:
My question to you fellows is how come what Boomer has stated is false and everything you fellows are saying is true.Where is the facts that DR.Shabibi is lying????Now will all the info yall POST from those with an opposing view,could they as well as yall be totally WRONG???
I don't understand what you're asking or stating. Can you please rephrase?
boomer6966 says:
June 12, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Doc, in your past posts you wrote fairly well. What happened? What are you trying to say here? I’m not bashing, I just don’t understand what you are saying.
Are you talking about this?I'm not a great typist never have been and my brain is faster then my finger sir. My question to you fellows is how come what Boomer has stated is false and everything you fellows are saying is true.Where is the facts that DR.Shabibi is lying????Now will all the info yall POST from those with an opposing view,could they as well as yall be totally WRONG??? Now let me see if I can make it a little more clearer. My question to you fellows is how come boomer is saying is false and everything you fellows are saying is true.Where are the facts that DR Shab is lying???Now with all the info yall post from those who validates your views.Could all of it be error or wrong??? NOW IS THAT A LITTLE BETTER BOOMER LOL SMH.
MAN O man the games ppl play.WOW,BUT IT'S ALL GOOD.SMH
Got it Doc. I don't think they're calling Shabibi a liar. I think they interpret things one way, and you another. Just differences in opinion.
With all that Barry copied and pasted notice there are NO links where it came from.LOL HYPOCRITES!Now also notice he never posted the info where they postponed the dropping of the ooo or even the possibility of not printing the new currency by September.Very clever one sided view.Now watch him and others wiggle out of this.Any more strangers?????
Boomer, there have been many values (peg attempts) over the years under Saddam's regime, often Saddam moved it because it was so overvalued that the market rejected it (it traded for far less on the black market). That figure could apply to any one of a number of those peg attempts. When Iraq redenominates, the Dinar will probably be 1.17:1 vs the $.
There won't be an "RV" in the sense the Dinar will be 1,000x stronger than the $ and no prices will redenominate as it really doesn't work like that. Export-orientated countries do not want super-strong currencies relative vs the same countries they're selling to as it makes their own industries less globally competitive and their exports more relatively expensive. If you're an Iraqi company selling products to America for 10,000 Dinar at a 1000:1 exchange rate ($10), and you "magic" the currency value up to 1:1 without redenominating prices (which isn't even possible given Iraq's massive 72tn Dinars used by just 30m people - for perspective there's only $15tn and €10tn Euro's globally circulating used by over 800m people! and under $60tn worth of total banknotes across the globe in all countries combined), then your product is suddenly 1,000x more expensive to your customers to import - as a 10,000 Dinar product that could be imported for $10 now costs your US customers $10,000 to import because each Dinar unit of currency now costs $1 each to buy instead of the previous $0.001 each - and its price hasn't redenominated to match! The only way around that is to redenominate everything by same factor as currency movement - and guess what - that's a redenomination / lop that the RV crowd are utterly terrified of admitting.
This is the obvious absurdity of a 1:1 note swap. You have 1.17m Dinars and expect $1m Dollars - but that also means it simultaneously now takes 1,000x more Dollars for non-Iraqis to buy the same Iraqi products priced in Dinars when trading, as yesterday 1 Dinar = $0.001 and today Dinar = $1), hence the inevitability of a redenomination:-
- If you redenominate the prices of goods with a 1,000x currency movement (move the decimal point left three places - which can only be done with a 1:1000 bank-note exchange), then that's a redenomination (or "lop" as some call it). Prices of goods remain the same both internally and externally (as exporters want them to or they'll price themselves out of the global market).
- If you "RV" and don't redenominate the currency & prices of goods when the currency value moves upwards 1,000x relative to another's currency (absolutely nothing leaps up by 1,000x overnight except hyper-inflation, but let's pretend for a minute that it does), then that's either a revaluation (for adjusting a fixed-exchange rate currency peg like the Yuan) or appreciation (for a floating-exchange rate currency which has no peg to RV) that will result in your country's goods costing 1,000x more for your foreign customers to import, just like a 39,760 Yen ($499) Sony TV made in Japan would leap up in price to $39,760 if Japan "RV'd" the Yen 80:1 to match the $ 1:1 without any currency-price redenomination adjustment...
Example : Given a spot price of $100, the price of a barrel of oil in Iraq is 117,000 Dinars (approx $100) and a loaf of delicious Iraqi bread is about 1,300 Dinars. Using the above 2 adjustments:-
1. Redenomination. Dinar rises 1,000x to 1.17:1, and everything redenominates by 1,000. Result : Oil is now priced at 117 Dinars ($100) and bread 1.3 Dinars both inside and outside Iraq with an exchange rate of 1.17:1. The maths add up - and this is what the CBI have repeatedly stated will happen, over and over and over and...
2. "RV". Dinar rises (appreciates) 1,000x to 1.17:1, nothing else changes internally (just like the $ moving vs the Euro doesn't change the prices of 100% US made goods inside the USA - only imports & exports). Result : Oil is still 117,000 Dinars and bread 1,300 Dinars inside Iraq - and yet simultaneously supposedly worth 1:17 vs the $ ($100,000) when exported. Maths do not add up. So either the exported price of oil ends up $100,000 and a loaf of Iraq bread $1,300 - OR the Dinar collapses in value vs the $ back down until prices become realistic again instantly devaluing the Dinar again because no-one buys Iraqi products as the "RV" exchange rate results in prices wildly divorced from reality. Trying to force Iraqi's to lower prices by 1,000x wouldn't work as that would be the equivalent of the USD $ "RV-ing" by 1,000x and Dell & Hewlett Packard being told to sell $499 laptops that cost $250-300 to make - for 49 cents to try and "match up" the 1,000x un-redenominated post-RV €399,000 export price (because the Dollar just shot up 1,000x in value vs the Euro and it now takes 1,000x more Euro's to buy an "RV'd" $) back to €399... Result? Obviously quite absurd for all involved...
This why no country on Earth can just declare themselves to be 1,000x richer outside of a redenomination - the maths have to add up. Forex is a zero-sum game - what one country gains the other loses. This is true of all transactions - permanently. There are no "miracle cheats" or reality equivalent to dumb "everyone's a winner" slogans. If there were every other country would be doing it weekly! And all the above is based on the "pretence" that a 1,000x movement is possible. It isn't because Iraq have over 72tn Dinars in circulation - the value of each one is weak precisely because there are 72tn of them. What the RV crowd describe as "the cure" (magicking more money into existence) is in fact the root cause of inflation that caused the currency to devalue in the first place!
In short : You cannot print or declare yourself richer. No country can. The only reason countries enlarge their money supplies is either to increase trading liquidity - not wealth - or out of desperation (eg, like Iraq and under sanctions unable to borrow or trade or deep in debt and having to print to cover interest payments).
Strong currencies benefit net importers (because you currency then buys more stuff), and weak currencies benefit net exporters (because you will sell more stuff and be more competitive against other medium value currencies). Why do people think China has spent years manipulating the Yuan to be WEAKER vs the $ - not stronger? Because 2bn Asians are all "stupid"? Iraq is a net exporter (or will be when oil production picks up). They won't want a massively strong currency as Iraqi oil prices are set by OPEC, and they would have to take the hit on profit margins. The main justification for the redenomination is to prevent Dollarization (where Iraqi's lose faith in their own currency and trade with $ or €). It's never been about an "RV" in the sense it's used on some boards.
The Dinar may gradually appreciate by a few percent over many years (as might the Dong, etc), but 99,900% "get rich quick" overnight RV is pure bunk. As it is for any and all other currencies. Hope this helps understand why "1,000x more wealthy currency with 1:1 banknote swap without redenomination" is just "nonsense economics".
"The 30 and 70 trillion dinars has never been validated "
Utter nonsense. It's listed directly on the CBI website - and updated monthly. From the Home-Page, click on "Statistics" then under "Statistical Documents", click on "Key Financial Indicators", and you'll be taken to here:-
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls
What part of "72,028bn M2 money supply" are you having difficulty understanding? This is precisely where credibility goes straight out of the window when you start declaring anything you don't like "a fraud" simply because you don't want to believe it...
"The 30 and 70 trillion dinars has never been validated"
Are the World Bank "liars" too?
“The Money and quasi money (M2) (current LCU) in Iraq was last reported at 61,393,052,000,000.00 (61tn) in 2010, according to a World Bank report”
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/money-and-quasi-money-m2-current-lcu-wb-data.html
With double digit annual money supply growth figures, Iraq's M2 has increased from 61tn in 2010 to 72tn today. This is simple verifiable fact.
IMF says Iraq Dinar "fair value" at 1170:1:-
"A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar"
“The CBI [Central Bank of Iraq] will continue to aim at keeping inflation low, predominantly by maintaining a stable exchange rate. The low level and the relative stability of inflation do not suggest any significant over- or under-valuation of the Iraqi dinar. Also, a stable exchange rate continues to provide a solid anchor for the public’s expectations in an otherwise highly uncertain environment and in an economy with a very low level of financial intermediation.”
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/
In fact, almost every major international banking organisation that some pumper conspiracy theories claim are saying "The Dinar is undervalued" are actually now openly saying the exact opposite on their own websites...
"This is the obvious absurdity of a 1:1 note swap. You have 1.17m Dinars and expect $1m Dollars – but that also means it simultaneously now takes 1,000x more Dollars for non-Iraqis to buy the same Iraqi products priced in Dinars when trading, as yesterday 1 Dinar = $0.001 and today Dinar = $1), hence the inevitability of a redenomination", Barry
Hmmm. That's exactly what I thought. It just doesn't add up any other way other than a redenomination. Do you mind if I copy the information from some of your posts in another forum (I'll link to the source and give credit)? Thanks.
On top of that there must be 20 or 30 “delete 3 zero” articles where the official states they have 30some trillion dinar in circulation at this time and it will be reduced to billions.
I guess they’all just making that number up also.
SMH
Dr. R. Keiferland - Sure no problem at all. Thanks.
Well the above posts are all interesting repartee but for me this was the most significant piece of 'evidence' of Iraq's intentions to revalue (not redenominate) their currency. This is from April 2012.
Here is the link to the SIGIR Report presented to the US Congress in April 2012. This edition of the Special Inspector General on Iraq Reconstruction from April 2012 was indeed presented to the US Congress with important information and perspective on Iraq's intentions relating to the plan to revalue their currency. The document states there has been a postponement of the implementation of their currency reform plan - this, I believe is logically due to the ongoing political deadlock in Iraq. I am not one of the 'it is going to revalue any second now' type people, but I do know I am holding actual physical currency that will at some point increase in value. I have not spent money I could not afford to spend and I am content to wait it out.
Here is the info from the SIGIR report:
http://issuu.com/sigir/docs/report_-_april_2012/1?mode=a_p
The key information is on either page 84 if you are looking at the actual page numbers on the document and page 94 if you are looking at the 'document page counter' at the very top of the program.
If one of you can refute this document then I am all ears.
Thanks.
Hi Cheryl, yes I've already seen that document. It mentions nothing of a "revalue" at all on any page but simply states what I mentioned on the previous page - Iraq is suffering from a massive money supply growth that's the main reason they've delayed redenominating to 1.17:-
"However, the significant growth of Iraq's money supply, which in recent month reached an annual rate of around 20% - roughly twice GDP growth has generated concerns about a spike in inflation... postponed currency reform that would have removed three zeroes from the Iraqi dinar. The reform would have made the dinar's value slightly less than $1."
Meaning : $1 = 1,170 Dinars -> remove 3 zeroes and then $1 = 1.17 Dinars. It's a redenomination they're explaining (and have been in past years too). There's simply nothing to "refute" as "remove 3 zeroes" is exactly what a "lop" is. If anything that's actually proof that the Special Inspector General on Iraq Reconstruction is admitting it's a redenomination as well...
Reuters - "Iraq has decided to hold off on a plan to knock three zeros off the nominal value of bank notes of its currency because it does not believe the economic climate is suitable, reports Reuters. The central bank said last August that it planned to redenominate the Iraqi dinar"
AKNews - “Iraq’s Central Bank announced on Tuesday that the project of Iraqi Dinar re-denomination consisting of removing three zeroes..."
etc. Remove / delete / cut / lop 3 zeroes and redenomination are exactly the same thing.
Cheryl
I posted a list of news article headlines on this site a few months ago. They were headlines from when countries redenominated/lopped. A number of the articles used the term revalue to describe the lop.
It's very common for reporters and others to refer to a redenomination as a revalue. The current dinar is worth $.00085, the new dinar will be worth $.85. Kinda easy to see why they might cal it an RV. But it's just sloppy reporting. It's a redenomination. When you see the term revalue and it's accompanied with removal of zeros, deleting zeros, raising zeros, or any form of that phrase, it's a lop. Once again... countries DO NOT, AND WILL NEVER discuss 100,000% increases in the value of their currency. They will on the other hand discuss for years a revenue neutral event like a lop.
Cheryl great article that is referring to the revalue of there currency..Anytime an article speaks abt adding value to their currency that is what revalue means.The speculation that there are 70 trin dinar on the streets is just that speculative.
Doc - "Cheryl great article that is referring to the revalue of there currency.."
No it doesn't. They've been saying the same thing (lop) all along in many other past quarterly reports too, eg:-
"CBI has announced that it intends to implement a long-planned redenomination of the Iraqi dinar by eliminating three zeros from the nominal value of bank notes." - SIGIR quarterly report, July 30th 2010.
Exactly the same reports by exactly the same people. A lop is still a lop no matter how much some pumpers try and twist the very clear definition of what "delete three zeroes" means around to mean what they want it to mean...
A few years back, someone even wrote to them and asked them to clarify what they meant by "delete three zeroes" and they very clearly said "redenomination". If Cheryl is in any doubt, she can contact the author's of the reports here...
http://www.sigir.mil/contact/index.html
Cheryl if you do or have done your research what these guys are saying is really based upon their interpretation, in which they really are talking out of both sides of their mouths.A lop is like a total devalue.Some have even stated that the dinar would be worthless.How do you really make change with the 25,000 notes???Now if you add value to it folks will cash them in.At this point they are worth abt 25 dollars.Now if you flood the market with lower denoms what will be the value??Now what these guys DON'T understand is the US$ is being use with other currency there too.
The first thing we need to know about the revalue is simple. We need an understanding of how a central bank works. What is a central bank? The US had 3 central banks. Each central bank was privately owned and operated. Each one had the power to print the government’s money, and charge the government interest for using that money.
http://iraqcurrencywatch.wordpress.com/americas-money-history/
Our current central bank is the Federal Reserve. It has the power to create money, adjust interest rates, and it has the power to control a lot of the American economy. Yet the Federal Reserve is not part of the Federal Government, and it is an independently owned and operated. It is a private organization.
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A&feature=related
We also need to understand that the Iraqi central bank is also a privately owned bank. It operates and works the same way the Federal Reserve operates and works. It was the Rothschilds that owned and operated the first two central banks of the United States. They also own the Central Bank of Iraq. (CBI) They played a major role and even have part ownership in the Federal Reserve.
A man by the name of Paul Wolfowitz who for a time served as head of the World Bank, (2 years) was also involved in the planning of the Iraqi invasion. He has ties with the Rothschilds.
http://www.analysis-news.com/allfolder/Understanding-IV.htm
Now let’s go back to The American Revolution. At this time there was a currency circulating called a Continental. (Colonial Script) The Rothschilds were openly condemning this currency and calling it worthless. At the same time they did this they were buying all the Continentals they could find. A man named Alexander Levine came to America. He was a Rothschild agent. He changed his name to Alexander Hamilton. He served under George Washington. He became his personal secretary. When Washington became president he made Hamilton the US Secretary of Treasury. Hamilton was able to revalue all the Continentals the Rothschilds owned. He was also successful in getting the first US Central Bank on a temporary basis. It had a 20 year charter and Washington signed it into law.
http://www.analysis-news.com/allfolder/Understanding-VI.htm
http://www.analysis-news.com/allfolder/Understanding-V.htm
YES it does,just becuz YOU say it doesn't,DOESN'T make it so.SIR
These guys are in error,they cannot validate that 30 or 70 trils is just floating around in the market place.
They will never say or use the term in their opinion,that's all they are giving.
The DFI provided the central operating budget of the CPA-overseen by Iraqi Governing Council and Ministries. DFI funds were also used to pay public sector salaries and to compensate families for the loss of members and property as a result of the actions of coalition forces. The CPA-appointed Program Review Board (PRB) approved DFI expenditures, and the UN-appointed International Advisory and Monitoring Board (IAMB) is charged with auditing the DFI.
The DFI is funded by continuing revenues from Iraqi oil sales, and has been supplemented by seized, vested, and donor funds.
After the transfer of sovereignty to Iraq on June 28, 2004, jurisdiction over the DFI was transferred to the Iraqi Interim Government.
Notice in this article The DFI is funded by continuing revenues from IRAQI OIL SALES.Now they are producing so much oil that you mean to tell me it can't handle a few TRILLIONS of dinar being cashed in?Remember they have abt 60 bil in the reserve.Also everyone won't cash in at the same time anyway.