By Tom Cleveland, market analyst for Forex Traders, exclusively for Iraq Business News. Forextraders.com is an online resource for the foreign exchange market.
“Buy on the rumor, sell on the news” is a time-honored investment phrase that is oftentimes more confusing than the wisdom it attempts to impart. The meaning relates primarily to company securities that appreciate in expectation of a big news announcement. Early speculation drives ups the price, such that when the real announcement is made, most investors sell on the news to take their profits, often driving the price down, rather than up. “Pump and Dump” stock frauds also follow a similar scenario, but in this case, criminals benefit and investors lose.
A similar situation has been building for years, some say as many as eight years, surrounding the potential “revaluation” of the Iraqi Dinar. As the rumor would have it, the Iraqi economy has stabilized, and the potential for enormous foreign currency reserves from increased oil exports will drive the value of the Dinar to unconscious levels versus the U.S Dollar. The government authorities will be forced to revalue the currency from 1,175 to 3 per Dollar, resulting in an outrageous windfall for anyone owning stockpiles of the currency. Does something here sound a little too good to be true?
In actuality, the Iraqi Dinar, or “IQD”, is a “controlled” currency. The central bank of Iraq determines the exchange rate and must support that rate by maintaining adequate foreign currency reserves to handle capital flows across its borders. The IMF permits countries with a transitional economy to implement currency controls in order to stabilize their economy during its redevelopment phase. Presently, international banks will not accept the Dinar, and it is not traded on any forex exchange. Actual purchases can be made through currency dealers that have been authorized to buy and sell banknotes that are already in circulation.
From Jason:
First of all how wrong are you, and your an expert, let me just school you really fast. The removing of the 000's as you state and as Dr. Shabibi states will take place are 2 different things He states he will remove the 000's notes from circulation not re-denominate.
Rasica:
You've said nothing different that I can see here. The three zeros 'will be removed' by 'repurchase'. No there will not be any re-denomination that I can see. IMO, there will be lower denominations introduced in the future. Iraq already has 100s, 50s, & 25s in coins. The most important part of this is that the USD is used more so than the dinar in everyday affairs. Thus the urgency to acclimate the dinar to the WTO by dominate use in Iraqi affairs. This is done by lowering the value of the USD (which is happening by increasing the TARP from $700 Billion to a closed door increase of $12.8 Trillion and revaluing the Dinar above the USD.
See http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/07/28/breaking-america-demands-nullification-on-the-2008-tarp-too-big-to-fail-bailout-true-cost-has-now-surreptitiously-soared-to-12-8-trillion-dollar-debt-all-behind-closed-doors/
JASON:
Next to shoot your story out of the water completely is that it is a fact the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and the United States "Artificially Deflated" the IQD which was worth $3.33 USD to 1 Dinar prior to the war, in order to stop Saddam from purchasing WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction).
Rasica:
That certainly does nothing about 'shooting story out of water', in fact, you are simply supporting the premise that it is the banker's intentions of subjugating Iraq to the Fed Reserve and CBI which is operated by Rothschild.
New currency was printed and then held in a 'controlled state' for rolling over and over again generating more value for the past 10 years. The funds of Iraq bought U.S. bonds aka; debt, The U.S. bought Dinars and thus kicked started their daily auctions.
The dinar for the last 10 years, has purposefully been held below the GDP/GNP of Iraq to preserve the rebuilding and investment period.
But the clincher is the 'subjugation scheme' of Rothschild and to attempt the crippling 'subjugation scheme' being done to the U.S. now.
Recall Kissinger promising the Middle East to buy their oil if they would simply buy our bonds _> T-Bills. This is why Obama has declared a 'moratorium' on The U.S. drilling their own oil. Why is that? Global Warming Ha! Nope it is to send our USD to the Middle East and to pump up Iraq -> which is to be the financial center of The Middle East.
Ask yourself why The U.S. has built the largest Embassy the world has ever known in Baghdad? See -> http://www.shunpiking.com/ol0405/0405-WD-DP-howusemb.htm
A LOP is impossible and thus any article that is manipulated to suggest so is ludicrous! Rothschild will not give up 3 zeros. They already bought most higher 3 zero dinars back with the 2008 oil windfall when oil was about $150/barrel.
Libya is basically on a gold standard and this is why the Rothschild controlled CIA was sent into there to destabilize. Moammar Gadhafi is too much of a threat to Rothschild's wealth by 'derivatives' aka; debt subjugation. Italy would not allow NATO to use their air bases for attacks on Libya and so now Rothschild has been putting the financial screws to Italy. Study Italy.
So in the end, Rothschild is absconding America's wealth to Iraq for a new market place for his 'wealth by subjugation scheme'. Yes, America has many corrupt politicians for this scheme to initiate. Can they keep it going? 2012 is going to say a lot along with Issa investigations.
This is the urgency for Rothschild, Obama is a one termer, and they are pulling out all the stops right now. So my suggestion is to sit back and watch what unfolds as a revalue in the dinar will likely be supported above the value of the USD and if for nothing else, for at least subjugated purposes.
Thus the audacity of hope - not for the people of the U.S., but for a new Middle East market place where the international banks can reap a fortune. The holders of dinars such as citizens, is inconsequential to this scheme, they would gladly make you a millionaire for this end result.
Jason:
If you all remember what was said in order to not tip us off to what they are doing, is that there would be a lot of articles lying to us about what they haven't done the closer they get to RV, that is going on right now and has been for the last few weeks.
Rasica:
Yes, the modus operand of rebuilding a nation state under such a scheme, is to misdirect. But, like you said -> "Do your research before you a supposed trusted expert speak on what you do not know."
On this I totally agree.
Ask yourself if in a country with oil floating on top of the sand, and numerous nation states forgiving debt in order to jump start Iraq into full production, that the dinar will be LOP'd and remain at 1170 with Rothschild owning the CBI?
Experts are almost never experts...who really knows what will happen??? Will there be an RV??? What will be the rate???
blah...blah...blah...
Did everyone forget about the (.com ) bubble, Enron, the fed. gov. bailouts, etc. etc...come on now, everything we see and hear is twisted and has no logic. So anyomne trying to give a logical explanation for or against an RV of the Dinar has lost touch with reality. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE!!! NONE OF US ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW, AND YOU CAN FLIP A COIN IF YOU LIKE.
If it happens , GREAT. If not, too bad...If you cant afford to lose, sell your Dinars, and if it doesn't matter, keep them...
Use simple logic...LOGIC...one more time, LOGIC, and if everyone went back to using a little LOGIC, we would all be much better off.
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE...BELIEVERS AND NON-BELIEVERS...
I couldn't agree more Denny, we are all suffering from inflation right now (nothing going on in Washington is relieving the immediate need). Everyone needs to take more concern with what is going on at home, or we are going to lose everything that we have paid to build since we became taxpayers.
I have really done my homework, and you know what my theory is for the RV? They are going to Re-Denominate it; $25,000IQD trades for the NEW $25IQD, Shabibi has already announced the RD when he visited the US Chamber of Commerce recently (lopping off the three zeros). Therfore, $1,000,000IQD/$25,000IQD (most ppl have this denomination)= 40 bills. You now have 40 - $25IQD in the NEW currency. People holding this currency will have a short time-frame to exchange it. By this time, it will now be in the "basket" of currencies with the IMF. They have been making arrangements for years with Iraq as part of the US plan to "rebuild Iraq" (Don't forget the US plan that has never been publicly disclosed for Iraq to re-pay their war debt). Why else would the CBI not sell their supply of USD (building their reserve).
Sorry, I digress.
Okay, you now have 40 - $25IQD(NEW). It re-values at 3.5IQD to 1USD (being generous). 25x3.5= 87.5. Now each of your $25IQD = $87.50USD... 40x87.50=3500. Not the enormous gain all of us had hoped for, being naive, but a tremendous gain compared to blue collar US investors.
This is all and educated guess, and nothing more. I am not going to spend anymore time than this looking on websites, or blogs about the elusive RV. I have had my epiphany and I want to share it. When I trade in my currency, I hope to consult a CPA about rolling over my gains in a tax deferred retirement plan that invests in certain firms in Iraq's stock market.
To all of you who's dreams hang on this RV, I hope that it turns out to be everythign that you have hoped. Iraq is a briliant place to invest. I wish you good luck.
Yours Truly
Thank you for your kind words of compassion & empathy rmrjlr!! Many of us are taking it literal when speaking of removing zeroes from the currency.. I don't believe they are speaking of the physical & tangible bank notes this will happen; But I feel it will be the significant figures to the right of the decimal point that will be removed... For example the IQD is currently (0.0085 roughly) making 1170. IQD = 1. USD after removing 3 zeroes from the IQD it will become 1.17IQD/1.00USD which has been declared by CBI to vote in parliament & submit this proposal by 2011 year's end which will be a more lucrative playout for us investors... God Bless
So you really think the CBI and Iraqi Gov are openly discussing their plan to RV the currency 100,000%? That is mighty nice of them to give everyone the heads-up.
Rasica, "Touche" thank you for the reply, very well thought out, put together and stated. Someone who has done more homework than me and I can learn from is one who benefits us all so greatly!!
I think RMRJLR is right. Sounds like we could make 3,500 on an investment of $1000. Now I am thinking global--- how much better off will the AMERICAN economy become when the debt to the United States is paid back? I would really hope something good could happen to kick start our economy. If anyone has anything valuable to say regarding this, please do. I enjoy others points of view.
Denny also be mindful that when Bush & Cheney were in office the United States invested 4 trillion into the Dinar...
I'm sure you have some proof of that Dante.
When they remove the three zeros on the new currency the old currency will have the same value of the new currency, example
25,000 note vs new note of 25. The new note is worth 25 and the old note with the three extra zeros is now worth the same as the new 25 note. If you think the bankers who are selling these notes for 400 plus USD moe than they are worth in Iraq, and by the way that is the only place you can use them, then buy all you want, you will be overpaying by 400 plus dollars. Stop trusting bankers and their lying ways. go to currency convertor and look at the exchange rate, why buy currency for more than its worth, that is really stupid
i heard that 2 ply charmin is worth more than Iraq denars an it is used for the same purpose
Larry,
Just hang on to what you have. Do NOT sell and wait a bit longer. It will happen. The Iraqi peopleis what this was all about and they need it. We just got lucky.
Lucky? You have bought into a scam and are about to lose a large % of your money.
Boys and girls,
Do I hope the rv happens and an instantaneous value of 3.xx is given to the Dinar? Absolutely. Do I actually think this is going to happen? Absolutely not. There are a plethora of euphoric BUY NOW sites out there that bamboozle prospective dinar investors with their positive speculation only statements, but an immediate revaluation of such an extreme increase is very unlikely. Could it reach mere pennies on the dollar at the eventual rv? I believe so. This is much more realistic, still increasing the wealth of a rebuilding country, while not making a nation of billionaires over night. Unfortunately, I believe this is the more realistic optimism that we can take a stance on while still gaining at extremely high percentage gains on our modest investments. Go Dinar!
P.S. To Stew above.....Just why are you scouring the Internet in search of Dinar speculation if it's a scam.....I even hope your dinar that YOU buy raises in value. Stop it.
Your thought that this could go up to pennies on the dinar. That is based on what?
There have been hundreds of redenomination articles explaining that they have a plan to delete 3 zeros and are just awaiting Gov approval. That means all current dinar will have to exchanged for new dinar at a rate of 1000 old for 1 new.
So with your claim that it could go up to pennies on the dinar... that's means you think it could go up 10,20 or 30 times. So after the redenomination and 3 zero lop the rate will be 85 cents, you think they could increase it 10,20 or 30 times from that. So the rate would be $8.50 or $17 or even $25.50 per dinar. That's what your claiming.
If you think the current dinar can go to 1 cent, 2 cents or 3 cents, then you also believe the redenominated (delete 3 zero) dinar can go to $8.50, $17 or even $25.50 per dinar. It's the same exact thing.
Sooo let me get this straight everyone here cannot read what happened in Kuwait and anticipate the scams going now...quick example of logic in currency the average American family makes $68k year for money distributed, okay in comparison the average Iragi family makes is 37k in dinar sooo what this means is that all Iraqis after revaluation will become instant US millionaires every single one of them according to the above calculations. That has never happened in the history of the world people..wake up please.
Many pumpers imo, hide behind the 'LOP' scam.
In this scenario, they write posts of empathy but lacking facts to scare monger readers into buying their 'Higher Priced' double zero or lower dinar currency.
When you read about scams tied to the Iraq Dinar well this is one of them. They highjack sites and superimpose fake articles into a site to make it look 'official' when spreading the fear mongering about 'LOP' or removing zeros from the most secure currency in the world. Its laughable, but I wonder how many are sucked in.
When confronted they'll say, not only the 3 zero currency but actually its moving of the decimal over 3 even on dbl or single zero currency. This is laughable, but again, I wonder how many people are sucked in?
What about the coins? Laughable yes.
Only zeros that have a chance of being lifted are the 3 zeros on .00086 the 'VALUE' of the artificial dinar. You cannot lift zeros off a currency when it is NOT tied to the GNP/GDP of a nation which would then reflect 'REAL' inflation or stability. To discuss inflation by 'REAL' terms when the Dinar is being strictly controlled and assigned an ARTIFICIAL value is again laughable. As it is even under the tightly controlled monetary system now in place, there is virtually no inflation and the country is growing leaps and bounds.
Just a note: The Vietnam Government just bought back $4 Billion USD worth of Dong. So here's a government with their currency tied to the GDP/GNP and they buy back instead of 'LOP'. Interesting eh?
Don't forget what the State Department said about Iraq, "Iraq will be growing faster than China for the next two years."
As for emotional relying upon 'relativism' in discussing a revalue point for the dinar, I find the argument way out of line with the GDP/GNP as well as being manipulated by Rothschild.
That said, one can go above and read my opinion on that.
No one in their right mind should be invested in stocks of any kind, with the heavy handed manipulation taking place now with the 'stimulus scams' and astronomical indebtedness." Gold, Silver, and Currency is a place to know in this manipulated climate.
All tis talk about the "LOP" it is not even a word if you really read any of the articles and besides that.You don't think Bush and Channey have any IQD how about the Donald ( Trump )how much do you think they have in there pockets. Do you really think all the big money people that have dinar are going to let the 3 zero's drop
I worked in Iraq for 5 years from 2005 to 2009 and almost the whole time the talk was that when it revalues it would open about .33 cents even if it opens at .25 cents that would make the $800 dollars i paid for 1 million dinar be worth $250,000 dollars not a bad investment.The talk of it opening at over $3.00 is BS put out by the scamers selling dinar for over $1200 a mil when actual cost is $8oo so they are already making $400 bucks for doing nothing except blowing smoke up anyones ass that will listen.Now think about it Iraq has OIL RESERVES they do not have the money on hand that it would take to cover the rush if it were to revalue at over $3.00 dollars for 1 dinar that would be $3,000,000 dollars for 1 million dinar THE MOENY IS NOT THERE TO COVER IT. AT .25 CENTS IT CAN BE COVERED AND EVERYONE WOULD MAKE A DECENT PROFIT. Just tink about it a little and stop believeing all the BS the dealer( SCAM ARTISTS ) are putting out.Do you really think that some jackass with a website really know someone on the INSIDE OF THE IRAQI GOVT OR THE CBI Get real and wake up if you have any dinar just wait it is going to revalue and i think it will happen soon and no I AM NOT AN EXPERT OR DO I HAVE A WEB SITE SELLING THE DINAR. But i am thinking realisticly and me personaly I'D BE HAPPIER THAN A PIG IN SHIT IF IT OPENS AT .25 CENTS EVEN IF YO PAYED $1000 DOLLARS FOR 1 MIL IQD YOUR PROFIT WOULD BE AROUND $200,000 after taxes now would you not be happy with that I WOULD AND .25 CENTS IS MORE REALISTIC THAN $3.68 that is just my 2 cents take it for what it is worth and lets just hope that the revalue happens soon me I'm just going to hope for at least the .25 cents with my 5 million IQD that be enough for me to retire just my opinion take it for what it is worth when it hits look for me i'll be in the nice new fising boat about 50 miles offshore off the texas coast
This might help your theory.....
http://www.alsumaria.tv/en/Economics-News-Iraq/3-68176-Iraq-Central-Bank-to-delete-zeros-soon.html
The central bank of Iraq knows where the money is going. They are aware of speculators buying their currency. They have it printed and they have it distributed and they understand where it goes. The M2 has done nothing but increase all of these years. So if its a scam then they are in on it because its their responsibility to manage the currency and I think it would damage Iraq's reputation even further if they lop'd or if they didnt honor their currency.
So if this is the end game for the currency, why do this now? They had to work off inflation? They needed a government to make decision? I dont think so at all. In the case of inflation countries redenominate during high periods of inflation or after they have worked off the inflation but the economy takes a hit almost always.
As far as needing the government. The central bank is the authority on monetary policy. They do not fall under the control of the GOI. That's a fact. They need the GOI to legislate laws to enforce their policy but CBI has the authority not Nouri Al Maliki.
The one thing that the LOP and the RV have in common is that its a conclusion to this speculation and when that's gone everyone will want to cash in. I don't have any hard facts on how many investors there are or how much has been sold outside of Iraq but I would imagine it to be a considerable amount possibly in the billions if you think about all foreign investors. So once a conclusion is in place and the mystery is solved, we will cash out regardless of an RV or a LOP or a LOP+RV. You will cash out.
The money they had allowed to be sold will now be leaving Iraq with no one purchasing the dinar anymore. This would hurt Iraq. They back their currency 100% per Islamic Full reserve banking.
This is a possibility that can not be dismissed. So if this is the case then what was the point of expanding the dinar currency especially when the US dollar is propping up the Iraqi economy? Look at the daily currency auctions at cbi's website.
They talk a lot but they do very little and I understand that now.
The currency will rise in value over time. They will allow another period of appreciation like 2006-2009 per IMF. Remember Hillary said that the IMF predicts Iraq to grow faster than china for the next two years. I'm patient I can wait and I have no problem with waking up one day and seeing the dinar be 900 or 800 dinars to one dollar. Let it be traded let the market drive it. New investors will join, tired investors will cash out. Perfect.
Hello Larry,
I check back here now and then. Listen, you didnt pay much for the dinar. It is going international very shortly so at worst you will break even. So, no loss period. Now, the absolute truth is you are a part a historic event of monumental proportions. This isgoing to revalue and you will at very least trade in a 25k note for $1,250, most likely much more. Dont read anything period. Log onto theiraqidinar.com and sign up for the revalue (breaking news. when it RV's or any major change in the currency happens you will be emailed and text.
It is not possible for any revaluation to make every Iraqi a millionaire overnight. Impossible. But the Iraq's new dinar started from a very weak state, a demolished country, and it has nowhere to go but UP, maybe not by a factor of thousands, but at least hundreds. this will happen overtime, and it will really revalue and find its real strength when the world monetary system is reset and the dollar is no longer the key currency that it is and the Dinar will be allowed to be traded freely. If the Dinar is decoupled from the dollar and the artificial exchange rate is lifted, then it will zoom up in value. Iraq is a lot more of a country than it was at the beginning of the new era.
I've investigated fraud around the world over the past 30 years. Every con, whether it be the Bank Examiner fraud, Pigeon Drop, Nigerian 419 or Bernie Madoff share the same warning signs.
Somebody knows somebody who has inside information on an investment, that is about to payoff big - it's just around the corner, and requires no effort on your part except to part with your money. Every comment here has been said over and over again for nearly ten years - "it's about to happen"...(just remove the date.) If you insist on throwing away your money, invest no more than you can afford to lose, like buying a lottery ticket. A losing one.
jesus! some people dont know what their talking about a lop basically means you have given up on your monetary policy and starting over pretty much and also you have hyperinflation ex. turkey.All iraq is plannning on doing is eventually collect all the larger notes and come out with lower denoms and since i know that they already have lower denoms in iraq right now that basically says no lop period so people that think lop is on its way i suggest you get in and if you really wanna argue about the lop theory i suggest you go to **** [Editor: link removed - please do not advertise] and talk to kaperoni he will change your mind!!
And one more thing no iraqi's will not be wealthy after this and thats because most of the people there have been using usd for years.Now for us that invested it has been said by shabibi as well as others that the old notes will not lose value so just say it comes out at 1 iqd to 1 usd for a 25000 dinar you would recieve at exchange 25000 usd simple as that also many other countries also have dinar tucked away as well so i highly doubt thatanything other than an rv will happen they will accomplish nothing economically by a lop theres no need as of this date inflation is going up but nowhere near what turkey was check your facts what their inflation was when they lopped youll see what i mean and iraq is also a wealthy country unlike turkey was when they lopped so i am not worried whatsoever kaperoni and others have already knocked the lop theory out of the realm of possibilities!!
Then you must be no fan of Obama.
That aside, many stock pumpers will come in
and post these "it's about to happen" ploys. They
try to discourage currency & metal investments
For the easily manipulated stock markets.
From the UNC study of all lops...
"Indeed, 2004 was the first year of single-digit inflation in Turkey since 1972, making 2005 an apt time to reinforce the commitment to low inflation."
"Similarly, in August 1997, the Russian government announced that the ruble would be redenominated as of January 1, 1998, with three zeros removed from the currency. This was intended to assure the public that Russia's economic crises were behind it; inflation was on the decline, falling from 875% in 1993, to 200% in 1995 and further, to 15%,"
"Hypothesis 2: Redenomination is more likely following a period of high inflation and a subsequent stabilization. A dramatic downward movement in inflation increases the probability of a redenomination. This is particularly likely in countries that are more open to international capital flows, that are under an IMF adjustment program, and that have politically independent central banks."
So here is a acedemic study that proves that lop are more likely done after a period of high inflation, once the inflation has gone down. Yet dinar gurus continue to lie through their teeth, and people like rockinrich continue to fall for the lies and even go on boards like this and look silly telling others they don't know that they are talking about.
Dinarland... gotta love it.
Stew if you really think its gonna lop i challenge you to come into www.**** [Edited: please do not attempt to advertise] just once and talk your lop theory to kaperoni ill bet you lose!!
Kaperoni and all the other dinar pumpers will not debate someone like me because they know I'm right and will expose them for the scammers they are. That's why they hide on their closed forums and ban anyone with any real knowledge.
Just went a read Kaps Fri chat where he claims no lop for various reasons.
His first reason he claims “it would be an abandonment of current economic policy”.
LOL… where does he get this claim from. That’s ridiculous. A lop does nothing of the sort. It takes your 1000 dinar note worth 85 cents and gives you 1 dinar worth 85 cents. That has absolutely nothing to do with economic policy… and his claim that it does shows he’s either incredibly ignorant or a lying scammer. Take your pick.
He claims the lop would show that Shabibi has not been successful. the truth is the exact opposite. Shabibi and the CBI have been very successful in controlling inflation and maintaining a stable exchange rate that is the exact time a country that suffered massive inflation in the past would lop their currency to remove the effects of that past inflation… that being zeros on the currency. Again Kap is ignorant or lying.
He also make some type of claim that a lop shuts everything down and that Iraq will do a gradual substitution. Again Kap is confused or trying to confuse. Lops do not shut anything down and all lops are a gradual substitution. I’m sure he’s aware of that so it makes it pretty obvious that Kap is a lying scammer. He claims the lop would cause the loss of IMF assistance. Again a big fat lie by Kap. Shabibi has already told the IMF about his plan to lop and they are in agreement.
So… every one of Kaps points for no lop… EVERY one of them is a lie.
stew i guarantee you hed change your mind about this lopping not gonna happen dont know if you read his chat from his site or somewhere else if you got it from his site then come in and lets talk it over love to hear both sides he will be in there later this evening ok let me know when you log in ok
Time and time again The GOI/CBI have stated that their modus for inflation is 'buying back' dinars off the open market.
M2 is a value scale not an M0 scale (quantity of currency), M0 is below 5T, inflation is extremely healthy in Iraq.
LOP is a by product of a completely defunct multi currency system within a nation, where printing a new currency outweighs the extremely high inflation and exchanges all various currency under one roof.
People are pulling their money out of stocks right and left as they realize the new world order scheme is on its last leg and its nothing but a fraudulent casino scheme.
So says the long time dinar pumper Rasica.
Of course they are buying back dinar... no one has ever denied that.
M2 is a value scale? That's pure nonsense. Here is a chart of Iraqs M2... do you see value attached to it anywhere? It is a money supply measurment. An amount of currency. It is currency in circulation plus electronic currency.
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/Monetary_Aggregates_f.xls
Proof Rasica is a lying pumper.
Iraq M0 is there "monetary base". You can see that on the same chart I linked. Sheet 2 tab at the bottom. It's 53 Trillion as of last report. Again proving Rasica is just making stuff up.
His description of lops is more made up fantasy. There's tons of info online describing redenominations. While a country having multiple currencies could be one reason to lop, it surely is no requirement.
Turkey didn't have multiple currencies, neither did Russia. There have been about 100 lops in the last 30 or so years. The only one I know that had multiple currencies was Afghanistan.
I'll await his response with links to his claims... I wont hold my breath though.
M2 is a 'Value' spreadsheet. Line 3 shows the decreasing exchange rate between the IQD/USD....as this number is reduced, the 'Value' for the Dinars increases (line 65).
The M2 does NOT show the M0 (Which Is The Physical Circulating Dinar)
M0: Physical currency. A measure of the money supply which combines any liquid or cash assets held within a central bank and the amount of physical currency circulating in the economy. M0 (M-zero) is the most liquid measure of the money supply. It only includes cash or assets that could quickly be converted into currency. This measure is known as narrow money because it is the smallest measure of the money supply.
Keep in mind while Iraq is under the tightly controlled monetary policy, the value is artificial & arbitrary.Presently, a lop is all a monetary illusion, the Dinar is not pegged to anything other than this ten year old arbitrary controlled value system during war.
Iraq is under a tight monetary system and is naturally very very stable. Turkey is nothing like Iraq as their Liras was pegged to their GDP/GNP where Iraq is artificial. Russia had plenty of other currency types just as Turkey did too. So my friend you are blowing smoke!
The Dinar will not undergo any such thing as a lop of currency. I just went back and reviewed old articles even from Reuters which is owned by Rothschild ( who owns the CBI ) and even in 2006 they were saying lop on a 3 year old minted currency that was designed in the USA. Now doesn't that smack of pure propaganda?
Gaudfry Daniels, if the USA spent $Billions in design of a new currency for Iraq in 2003 and then to just say (oooops) we need to do it over again but this time take off the zeros in 2006 because???????????????????????......
Sorry, the 2006 media release which we see all the time now from 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 have all been to discourage outside purchasing of the Dinar IQD. In other words it's nothing more than propaganda. While simultaneously under tight monetary control of an artificial value, the GOI/CBI purchased back dinar at a rate of $1.5 Billion/month beginning in 2008. Did you know that at that rate, they could have purchased every dinar back in little over a years time?
So continuing to point at the m2 as if Iraq is printing more dinar to then just turn around to purchase it back at $1.5 Billion per month rips a hole in your argument.
[Comment removed by Editor - please keep all comments civil and avoid personal insults.]
It is amazing just how wrong, or willfully ignorant, you are. Line 3 of the “Key Financial Indicator” spreadsheet shows the exchange rate. It’s not the M2 spreadsheet. M2 is simply one figure of the “Key Financial Indicators”
As anyone with a second grade education can see, the M2 number on the spreadsheet is not going down. It has been steadily growing since 2004 even though you have been falsely claiming since 2008 that it is getting smaller.
It is line 84 of the document.
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls
Iraq does not list their physical currency as M0, I linked the chart above that proved that to you but you ignore it and push forward with your lies like any good dinar pumper would.
Iraq list physical currency on their spreadsheet as “Currency outside of banks”, line 76, which is 25.3 Trillion. They also list Iraqi Dinar vault cash, which is dinar sitting in banks, line 80, which is 3.9 Trillion. Those two figures added together come to 29.2 Trillion physical dinar in circulation and matches the number that they have quoted in many of the delete 3 zero articles lately.
Here is an interview from Iraqi TV from a few days ago with 2 Iraq Central Bank officials and a Parliament member… talking about the redenomination.
They state a number of times there are 30 Trillion dinars in circulation, and Shabibi even states that number will be reduced to 30 Billion. The only way that is possible is with a 3 zero lop, just as they have said they will do.
17 Sept 2011 Interview on Iraqiyah TV with CBI Governor Sinan al-Shabibi, A unidentified Parliament Member and CBI Advisor Mudher Mohammed Saleh.
The Parliament Person:
This old currency when it will be destroyed, there must be awareness, because this old currency could go back to the market again and to the recharging process one again.
The producer of the show:
Destroyed by a specialized committee, through them?
The Parliament Person:
Yes, of course, there is nothing ultimate in this world, because even the committee could be infected by the corruption, so there must be a double procedures to prevent the old currency from been leaking out.
The producer of the show:
Did you consider such fears acceptable, as it is come from other people?
The Parliament Person:
Of course its acceptable, but the CBI personnel must make a strategy with one way only so when the currency get through it, there will be no way back, and thatís mean the destruction process must be in it correct way with the supervise of a specialized persons and go a step by step and also with the committee monitoring which is still in the process of develop and grow up.
The producer of the show:
Dr. Sinan Al Shabibi the printed currency right now is 30 Trillion Dinars? Do you have a statistic way to know the stock of this currency? And how you will make sure that no fake dominations will become a part of this 30 Trillion?
Dr. Sinan Al Shebibi:
By God its, I mean this is part of the faking process that possibly become a part of process like Ahhhhhh, trying to Ahhh!!, entering through the Banks and these stuff, and for this truth we watch very good, and we of course have statistics I mean the currency, currency we discover fake, I mean I didn't come to and in all the dominations I mean let us say 0003 something very little very little a very simple number let us say has an effect but I mean it will be watched in a very good way but this this not it be in truth it is the limitation of the process or the continue like we heard in the conference and such a stuff, because this is very limited, but Mafia and such a stuff is very limited its an open case not open like this but that doesnít mean that they will come carrying a bags of money on their shoulders Ahhhhh Ahhhhh, the subject is crystallized and there is a control above such a thing Ahhh Ahhhh checking and checking the currency and and and and, are they fake or something like this, this is in delivering in main.
The producer of the show:
So can we know the fake currency? Even if it was professionally faked?
Dr. Sinan Al Shebibi:
Yes, Yes, like what we are doing right now, like the truth right now will not be different
The producer of the show:
Thatís mean that you printed the new currency with the value of 30 Trillion after deleting the three zeros? So is there is any increasing in this number according to the government neediness or the needs? Or we reached a final number which is 30 Trillion?
Dr. Sinan Al Shebibi:
30 they are the stock right now, thatís mean that the 30 that exist will be reduced to 30 Trillions to 30??? Ahhhhhh!!!! "Billion"
Mudher Mohammed:
As a number it will be reduced and as an amount it will be reduced also because it a restructuring of the whole currency.
The producer of the show:
So from the economical side it is very useful to strength the Iraqi Dinar? And will the CBI continue selling the U.S. Dollars and working with the new currency as well?
Mudher Mohammed Saleh:
The people will submit to the new currency and they have to have it or they will face punishment like tax, and there will be a big dominations and small dominations which is consisted of the coins, if we made two or three big value domination this will reduce the stock of currency (four Trillions) and it will become 2.9 billion and this will make the system thinner and make it more settle.
The producer of the show:
Dr. Hayder (The parliament person) you are a parliament authority, we find a lot of people rejecting this process because Iraq from the political side is not done yet or not developed yet to get through such a process and these people saying these when Iraq complete some of it more important sides and develop enough and then we will be ready to go through such a step?
The Parliament Person:
I will answer your question but first I will commit on the work evaluating.
Of course the suggestion will consist of a varied dominations but the 25 Dinar and above like 50 or 100 Dinar will be more than 65% or even 75% and the rest dominations will be the 25% so faking process will be a very easy to control because the big value currency will be easy to identify wither it official or fake and faking them almost impossible.
Dr. Sinan Al Shebibi:
And we also in truthÖ. Didnít print the currency, itís a strategic thing.
The Parliament Person:
We all the time start such a process with the stock we have the one used between the banks and this will protected from being faked, but the one that the people exchange will may be fake,
The producer of the show:
Is this thing will be a stuck point within the Parliament?
The Parliament Person:
The CBI provide us with a completed studied documents of the whole project but some parts still in the process of developing and we will have a good time to finish these sides and the project will be established at the 2013 and this will leave a good time period to study every thing once again and fill all the holes in the project to make it perfect, and the parliament will have the time to negotiate about this project in front of every one.
The producer of the show:
Dr. Sinan, one of the major duties for the CBI is to raise the value of the currency and make it a welcomed currency where ever we go with it, and also will the government set a time to sell amount of Iraqi Oil for Iraqi Dinars and remove it all from the outside and make the preparations for the process of changing the currency?
Mudher Mohammed Saleh:
As I think that the Iraqi currency amounts is very little out side and its there only in the neighboring countries like Syria, Iran, Turkey, Saudi.. etc, and it went there for a tourism and small trading process only, your question is that when the Iraqi Dinar will be a reserve currency for other countries, and my answer is that Iraq have a lot of goods and his abilities is very strong and if the steps goes right in the future the Iraqi currency will be a reserve currency for other countries.
The producer of the show:
What is the stock of reserves right now?
Mudher Mohammed Saleh:
It's about 58 Billion U.S.D and this is the highest number that Iraq reached through it economical history.
The producer of the show:
Ok, Dr. Sinan, a currency with three languages, Arabic, Kurdish, and English, is such a thing possible and is there any country have such a currency or may be with more languages? And dose the Iraqi constitution allow this?
Dr. Sinan Al Shebibi:
(The conclusion of what he said is that it's possible but with shortened the writings and makes the languages refer to the amount of the domination and not a long sentence)
The producer of the show:
What if you found that the stock is more than 30 Trillion?
Mudher Mohammed Saleh:
Thatís mean there will be a problem in the whole of the study and the whole project, and even though we have a lot of way to prevent such a thing from happening and even if it happen we have ways to correct it
stew i see that you dont wanna debate this with kaperoni cause youl lose so dont worry about us dinar investors ok pal other wise get in the room and state your case!!
These propaganda hit pieces are done all the time Stewy, you should be ashamed of yourself.
If your article was true, then they are printing currency to simply buy it back.
Oh make sure to ask the producer why he was talking about stock, in a tightly controlled monetary system that is not even pegged.
You're a funny guy :0)
Line this line that, it matters not. You simply do not understand that your M2 is a tight monetary system in Iraq, which is not pegged like your Turkey & Russia scenarios. Therefore, it's simply moot!
That said as the value increased from 1400 (2003) to 1170 (2011) the numerical number fell and correspondingly your arbitrary M2 increased.
"To keep inflation under control, the Central Bank of Iraq will tighten its monetary policy stance, notably by increasing the pace of appreciation of the dinar and by keeping its policy interest rate positive in real terms."
--IMF
The real M0 for Iraq is below 5 trillion as they have been buying back at $1.5 billion/month. When you buy back your own M0 aka; physical currency off the street - you don't turn around and print more.
If you want to re-read the NYTs article on the $billion USD buy back simply see my previous posts.
Hang in there Stewy.
LOL... "M2 is a tight monetary system in Iraq" Seriously dude. That's jibberish. M2 is a measure of money supply.
Iraq has had a 60 to 80 Trillion dinar budget for 5 or 6 years now. If they were not buying back trillions of dinar at auction to use for their budgetary expenses, their M2 would be in the 100s of Trillion by now. I don't expect you to understand this simple concept, but maybe it will help others understand why it is that the money supply continues to grow even though they are buying back dinar. They buy it back and the budget spends it right back out there. But the budget spends more than they are buying back, so the number is slowly increasing.
Wonderful spin Dr. Stewy, you made my day. Where you got 60-80 trillion, I'm sure, is the same place where you'll get 250 trillion for the next round of arguments eh? Lol
One has to ask, with the $billions from the oil windfall of 2008, why not leave the currency supply as is and just use the windfall (which is in USD) for spending?
We know Iraq is not spending in Dinars but USD and thus no conversion. This should be made all clearer to you since the Dinar is artificial in value and has not been recognized yet as a medium of exchange internationally since it is under a tight monetary policy.
This is one of the arguments for the dinar being revalued above the value of the deminishing USD. Iraq wants EVERYONE inside the country using the dinar and not two currencies like the USD & the Dinar.
From an article out in the last day or two.
In a speech given recently in London, Iraq Central
Bank expert Mazhar Mohammad Saleh said he estimates the currency reform will result in an exchange of more then 30 trillion dinars valued at more than $26 billion U.S. The most important change, according to Saleh, will be the deletion of the three zeroes from the currency. This will reduce the number of bank notes in circulation, simplifying the cash payment system in Iraq.
Can't get much more clearer than that. 30 Trillion exchanged, 3 zeros deleted, reduce the number bank notes. Lop
BAGHDAD -"An authorised source at the Central Bank of Iraq denies rumours that claimed the bank wished to value the dollar at 1,000 dinars, or less or more, or change the currency denominations, or remove the zeros from the present currency," the central bank said in a statement.
Yes one cannot get more clearer than that.
So are you agreeing that the "remove 3 zero" thing is a lop?
Cause mmany of your pumper brothers claim that's a big RV.
Ive said this already i believe but there will be no LOP as there will be no great RV as pumpers have pupported all this time.
The reason?
Iraq needs our money, and they need to keep the money we have exchanged for buy giving our dollars towards iraqi dinar. Why do you think its been going on for 8 years and in 8 years they couldnt get a redenomination done? Don't give me excuse about they need a government, thats balogney!! Did they need a government for the NID? They just DID IT! They knew of the three zeros in the begining why not take care of the condition of the currency then? They came out straight away with three zeros in the inception of the NID because the IMF would not let Iraq off the hook for the stupid spending and printing Sadam did.
CBI knows where their currency moves, shabibi is a smart man and the internet is free for anyone to use. Stew you slam these pumpers but honestly its the authority over the dinar you should be slamming because its their non action that has allowed this situation to exist for pumpers but have you thought about the fact that maybe they are allowing all of this to happen for a reason?
Look at the behaviors at other countries who feel the presence of speculators? How fast did they move on what they did or didn't do?
THEY DIDNT WAIT 8 YEARS DID THEY? hehehe...
Consider this, no country that has redenominated Turkey,Russia,Brazil and now Iran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_rial had the u.s. dollar to support them. Its widely accepted all over Iraq.
That's why they have no reason to LOP and will continue to have all the time necessary for political wranglings and for proper investment to help develop a private sector and in doing so, the dinar will be strong again because central bank of Iraq will contract the money supply and sell securities as this should improve the dinar's standing at some point.
This can be the only explanation for a directionless path for expanding the M2 and cash reserves over the last 8 years. Everything I've said is based on fact and if you have followed this nasty currency investment for some time you know that a lot of people have been duped? Well Iraq still has to honor that currency.
Do you think Iraq will be happy to watch billions of dollars walk out the door in a very short amount of time if they choose to redenominate or the impossible rv of 1 dollar to any rate sniffing a penny? With all these sick get rich idiots holding their currency? That's any country's central banks worst nightmare to be quite honest! hahaha
That's why an RD/LOP or RV will not happen. Hey its been 8 years look at what's transpired up to now. The currency came out at 3,000 + to the dollar and was allowed to appreciate to 1170 where cbi stopped it to deal with the inflation in 2009 where according to the MOP they enetered a 3 year study of an exchange rate 1.13. 3 year study? Oh so thats 2011 its over ahhh and to do what? and in these Iraqi articles about the central bank they bragged about the work they did on the inflation and the stability of the dinar. Keep in mind CBI is the authority on the monetary policy of the Iraqi Dinar, yes they have to work with the government on legislation to support their policy but they do not fall under the government's authority. Very similar to the relationship our Federal Reserve has with our own government. These are FACTs
and consider the purpose of the daily currency auctions that can be found on the cbi's website? of recent often buying between 150-200 million dollars daily? the security auctions on cbi's website?
What is the purpose of this purchasing of dollars in such a high amount in the currency auctions? open market operations that works towards contracting the money supply maybe?
Stew if you still believe in a LOP you have too much time on your hands and in case your response is the typical ROI it will be a 2 to 1. Your so wrong....so many people are ready to cash out keep that in mind. Iraq will lose billions. No incredible change to the exchange rate will occur over night 2. This isn't the only game in town if your looking for investment opportunities
Appreciation will come and one day the dinar will be worth 900, 700, 500, 250 to the dollar and every person has a price they will cash out at but for most they will not make millions, but maybe get to pay part of their house off, or take care of a credit card or two. That's reality! At the same time the demand for the dinar will increase and more serious investors with capital will enter the game. All of this would be a good thing for Iraq and that's what the currency represents!
I realize now the power of belief is an overlooked aspect of investing.
Stew, I find this Ironic that I'm saying this but thank a pumper! 🙂
quad i agree with you that there will be no lop and thank you for that but i disagree with you that iraq is not going to rv their currency.It's been said over and over by shabibi that iraq is going to have the strongest currency in the middle east also if iraq wants to encourage trade and investment in their country they must do this we already have proof of the lower denoms in iraq so if they arent going to rv whats the point of doing that also the secrets out about them rving their currency many countries including the us has dinar so no one will convince me otherwise and stew give up your lop theory pal it aint gonna happen!
Quad… you make some good points… and I’ve said basically the same many many times. I’ve often wondered why Iraq would redenominate while they have people all over the world buying their currency and putting it in a shoebox in the closet halfway around the world. As you said, this is all free money for Iraq. It’s a massive interest free loan. I’ve also often said this dinar scheme was cooked up by the US and Iraq and they are fully aware of what’s happening. There was an article years ago from an Egyptian journalist I believe who claimed to have a source who was in meetings with Iraq and the Coalition Authorities and it was claimed that they pushed the dinar out all over the middle east as an investment. The claim was the more people that held dinar the more support they would get for the whole Iraq operation. The dinar was a phsy-op plan.
You have your information about the auctions backward. They are not purchasing dollars at auction, they are buying back dinar. I just talked about that in one of my last post. Guess you missed it. Iraq gets lots of dollars from oil sales. They use a lot of those dollars to buy back dinar to use for budgetary spending. Government salaries and social programs and such.
Now… I’m not the one saying they are going to redenominate. It is the Central Bank of Iraq that is saying it. There’s a new article about it almost every day. Now imagine this. They make the decision to lop, they say we were going to give two years to do the exchange, but due to fears of corruption, the mafia, counterfeiting, (how many of those articles have they floated out lately). Due to all these worries we have to limit the exchange period to 3 months. All these large sums of money were never supposed to leave the country. It will be deemed illegal/smuggled and will be blocked from coming back into the country. Not hard for me to imagine at all. They get their brand new shiny currency with a good value. National pride… and they keep most of the money speculators gave them for dinar.
So, some shower curtain ring salesman hoping to make an insane amount of money at the drop of a hat is more of an expert on this subject than ...well, an actual expert? Really?
If you wouldn't be willing to disregard the advice of a structural engineer or a plumber or some other pesky "experts" in their respective fields, don't be so eager to do the same in this case.
The information floating around about this is easily proved bogus repeatedly. Just because you want it to be true wont make it so. You are not in the know and are not bound to make millions. Quite the opposite. Don't be foolish...
Now, I should probably take this opportunity to let you all know that I am willing to cure anyone of all disease & grant them immortality for the some of $100.00. Imagine, immortality for only $100?!! People will tell you it can't be done, but they don't have the inside scoop you do. The Iraqi Transitional Council granted me these special powers, but they will expire soon so act fast!
I also am willing to throw in an old bridge in NYC.