A local newspaper in Georgia, USA, reports that some local residents are buying Iraqi dinars in cash form, in the hope of profiting from a revaluation of the currency.
According to the Moultrie Observer, people are buying boxes of crisp Iraqi dinars that look fresh off the printing press. It goes on to quote a local commodities trader as saying he could possibly think of worse investments than Iraqi money at this time, but would be hard pressed to do so:
"If you want to make a wild investment, I'd buy Russian rubles ... It (the dinar) would be one of the most foolhardy investments you can make."
Meanwhile, CNBC columnist Kelley Holland says the dinar is the subject of a variety of scams, and regulators and watchdogs are sounding alarms:
"If someone has been telling you about the rosy prospects for the dinar, please, please, be careful. It's almost certainly too good a story to be true."
On Thursday, Komo News in Seattle, Washington, ran a news report on the dinar and interviewed one woman who had actually bought what she believes to be Iraqi dinars on the internet. You can find the full video report on the next page ...
Trevor - You ARE absolutely terrified of talking TO people rather than ABOUT them. That you're still addressing "Doc" whilst trying to sort of reply to Barry (what is this a school classroom where you pass notes to people so that teacher doesn't see? Seriously dude?) is perfect proof of your inability to hold a simple two-way conversation.
T: "and now I am suppose to be acting like a child"
You ARE acting like a child (see above). Adults talk to each other, only children pass notes. "Doc, tell Barry that I said x because I'm sulking and am not talking to him directly". Bloody childish beyond belief...
These guys are so full of pride Trevor,there information is so wack and outdated.lol They are so busy using the term scam,con,and etc that they can't hear or see the truth.This is a currency that we have,now that's facts.This currency that we have is the same type of currency that they have in Iraq as well as other parts of the world.Trevor it's not just me and you these smart guys are insulting,but the world.It really shows how narrow minded these so call smart guys are.They constantly come out with half truth and in some cases 0 truth just to appear right.And they are so ignorant that they can't dialog with out calling names.Reading their concepts and speculation of this investment is appalling.For them to talk in the absolute and as if what they are saying is truth is amazing.There hasn't been a lop,redenomination,000 deleted,RV,RI.Nothing,but they will never admit it.Everything that they are saying is speculative.That's the bottom line.THEY ARE VERY EGOTISTIC.
Trevor"but sadly Doc all I have found is a lot of one eyed fools here (yourself not included, or the other guy who got sick of the hatred this lot are dishing out)"
Yawn. Same old personal attacks. The other guy "chasting" left because after spending ages pretending to be "Mr. Neutral", he was completely outed as a disruptive troll whose final open admission was to shut down the debate for everyone simply because he couldn't debate properly. He wasn't sick of the "hate" he was sick of the refusal to bow to his censorship attempts. And that's a good thing!
"I will give just one example, they keep saying that the Iraqi government is going to remove several zeros of the present currency, yet only several days ago it was reported that the Iraqi Government has cancelled the decision indefinitely."
They said "until further notice" (which is really no different from what they've said all along). Only moron pumpers have been saying "next week! This Tuesday!", etc, over and over. They postponed the redenomination. Sure. It was reported on this very site 2 months ago:-
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2012/04/13/iraq-halts-plans-to-drop-3-zeros-from-dinar/
They're waiting for a combination of Parliamentary approval and for inflation to stabilize more and fluctuate less than it has done. But the economics behind the "RV" is still a load of manufactured bunk whether Iraq redenominate or not. Since you're finally starting to look at official statements you might to go through them and understand that not once have Iraq used the word "revalue" - it's always been "redenominate". "RV" is a 100% emotional fabrication by American Dinar salesmen.
"No sorry I will add another, ” holders of the current IQD will only have a short time to do so”
Which is the truth. Of course there will be a set time limit for demonetization of old notes once new ones are brought in, other wise there wouldn't be any point in introducing new ones! Might be 3 months, might be 6 or even 12 - who knows. The Euro was changed over in literally several weeks - and that was for 300m people in two dozen countries - not just 30m in 1 country. It doesn't take that long to switch. Last time Iraq changed over banknotes they set only a 3 month limit. They won't run both currencies concurrently for years simply because the logistics of having two sets of banknotes costs extra money the longer it goes on, not to mention makes accounting much harder. Common sense really.
"No, now they have got me started, ” what proof of currency held in an account be given”. What b***** account"
You sound very confused. I said half of all Dinar's in circulation are in the form of banknotes (M0) and the other half involves bank accounts, bonds, etc, in that currency (M2) - which debunks the claims that Iraq will "RV" different notes at different rates (because not all money is in the form of banknotes , ie, it's electronic for which the earlier claim is meaningless). I didn't say "Trevor has a Dinar bank account in Iraq". I suggest you re-read my post.
"my IQD are not in any account, they are in hard cold in my hand legal tender IQD, that will be able to be exchanged over the counter in any bank that deals in foreign currency, into what ever currency that I choose to exchange them for."
Assuming Iraq does not implement currency controls (ie, only send out and allow the post-RD newer banknotes internationally - which being "protected", Iraq is entirely legally able to do), yes you could do that.
"they (IMF) can not stop Iraqi banks trading internally in IQD"
Um. I never said otherwise...
"OH and what is their reply to why the IMF is stopping the IQD from being traded throught banks outside of Iraq? The reason they say is to stop the value of the currency dropping further, hahahaha, the reason that it fell to the value that it now is, is because of the UN santions (eg imbargo on Iraq’s sale of crude oil), which crippled Iraq, financially ruining it, thus making the Iraqi currency practically valueless at that time."
Half-truth, half confusion. To start with the Dinar has been "protected" by the IMF from short-selling overseas. The UN sanctions did cripple Iraq - but Iraq responded by printing vast sums of money, which has caused massive devaluation of the Dinar. The only way of eliminating that is to take out a lot of Dinar's (which is the whole point and purpose of a redenomination). It simply cannot be done any other way.
As for Iraq's oil exports, they currently export around $65bn per year. Given the "RV" argument claiming Iraq's 35tn Dinar will exchange 1:1 and be near parity with the Dollar, I'll let you work out how $65bn oil sales and a $127bn economy is magically supposed to "support" a $60,000bn-$70,000bn money supply... As explained previously, the Dinar is a FIAT currency - not on a gold standard. It's value primarily comes from how many are in circulation (basic supply and demand) not what natural resources it hasn't sold yet... Look at oil-rich Venezuela's redenomination and learn. Likewise with oil-rich Iran's massively devalued currency (12250:1) - what's the "oil valuation" excuse there given they have more than Iraq? Fiat currency values are not driven by oil reserves, they're driven primarily by monetary supply. Overprint it - and the value will go down no matter how much oil you have or sell. Why isn't the Russian Ruble stronger than the Swiss France? Why is oil-poor Sweden the same strength as oil-rich Norway? Think about it.
"Why, because now we have China’s economy growing, which is demanding more and more of all kinds of products, eg iron ore, coal, wheat, crude oil, and the list goes on, and Iraq’s vast reserves of crude oil places it in a very strong, and able position to meet the increasing international demand for crude oil"
Which makes Iraq no different to the 100-odd other countries on Earth with oil reserves and production then... As for "finding hidden oil" - utterly irrelevant. Venezuela found a massive amount recently (they have more proven oil than Saudi Arabia - and TWICE that of Iraq) and their currency hardly moved at all. Learn how currencies actually work rather than just throw "what about..." RV soundbites out, because half the "RV" argument is nothing but a mish-mash of randomly collected salesmen facts about Iraq that has little to no impact on the currency's valuation.
"Finally, my purchase of IQD, have not been from some conman, he didn’t sell me lower denomination IQD notes at a higher price than for the 25,000 IQD notes..."
And yet isn't it interesting that the Dinar sales site you advertise in your name does just that?... Why keep advertising such a scam if you didn't buy into yourself (unless you have some vested interested in the site...)
Thank you for finally debating Trevor, even if you are "passing classroom notes" through Doc in the process, and spent the last paragraph spewing bile before running away... It's really sad that it's taken this long for someone to at least attempt to actually debate beyond one-liner insults.
BTW, I just double-checked on Iraq's money supply (M2). It's actually now a whopping 72 trillion! Details here:-
http://www.cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls
That just makes the 1:1 banknote swap "RV" argument look even more idiotic given there are only $12-15tn US dollars, €10tn Euro's and about $60tn of total combined currency in the world...
Epic post Barry! Cuts through the cr*p of so many misconceptions right to the core truth of the matter. That's why I come here - not the "Tourettes Trolls". That Iran's currency is 10.5x weaker than Iraq's despite having double Iraq's oil production (and more reserves) should spell it out that oil has little to do with value vs the $.
Iraq will lop or put off lopping - either way there is no "RV" (or serious argument for it).
Wow Barry. I thought this was an adult debate.Im a "troll"? Hope your view point of me changes and if it doesn't I still hope you the very best in this life. Saw your 72 trillion remark. You provided a link. Click on it. It opens... Enable content to see properties. It was created and owned by a "Mary Woolford". Who is that? Did she download from CBI only to edit it? Further investigation this xls origin shows it also was edited by a Mr Dominic.Mellor dated 22 Aug 2005. Not a credible xls in my opinion. Still believe to agree to disagree. Take care best of everything to you and yours.
chasting - "Im a “troll”?"
Yes chasting for writing this (in between a heap character smears) : "If you do nothing at all at least do us all a favor and shut down this toxic silly blog.."
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/11/11/iraqi-dinars-one-of-the-most-foolhardy-investments-you-can-make/comment-page-6/#comment-103286
That was your intention all along - not to debate but to disrupt and silence others / shut down debate for everyone - and yell "toxic, toxic" at anyone who disagrees. And that's exactly what trolls do.
"Enable content to see properties. It was created and owned by a “Mary Woolford”. Who is that?"
A lady who works with the CBI (in the Banking Supervision Dept) to translate documents into English. If you do a Google search you would find that out yourself and see many other translated official documents with her name on it - along with her credentials. Google is your friend.
"Not a credible xls in my opinion."
Then your opinion is false. Mary Woolford has worked with the CBI for years. All you've done is highlight your willingness to jump on perfectly ordinary facts and create false beliefs / conspiracies out of them (despite lecturing others on doing that in the past)...
If you're genuinely in "polite mode", then all the best to you too.
Barry, superb posts there. Absolutely brilliant. Very well articulated. Agree with the childish "I'm not talking to you, but here's a note from my friend Doc and he will pass one back through me" thing. I grew out of that in junior school. For two grown men to do it, good God...
PS: Barry is that the "M2" figure in the Excel document? (Iraq's total money supply)?
"PS: Barry is that the “M2″ figure in the Excel document? (Iraq’s total money supply)?"
Thanks John. Yes - the row (84) that says "Money Supply (End of period , in billions of Iraqi dinars)" and underneath "M2" = 72,028bn (ie, 72tn Dinars).
To keep things in perspective, Kuwait's is about 27bn (that's billions not trillions) Kuwaiti Dinar's - and that's the real reason why Iraq's Dinar is so weak than Kuwait's - there are over 2,500x more Iraqi Dinar's in circulation than Kuwaiti Dinar's. Oil doesn't come into it - it's simple supply & demand & inflation. There simply is no secret magic hidden value or "undervalue" to "RV". The IMF have already declared the Dinar "fair market value" given the tens of trillions in circulation. Iraq will eventually redenominate their currency down from 72tn M2 Dinars at 1170:1 to 72bn M2 at 1.17:1, and in the process end up with a new Dinar which is much more in line with:-
1. The US $ (in currency value)
2. With the other Gulf states (in monetary M2 supply value), and
3. Their economy ($143bn GDP)
In no way, shape or form can a country have over 500x more money in circulation (in US$ value) than the size of their economy (GDP also in US$ value) and not experience hyper-inflation (which is the "RV" argument in a nutshell). It's like expecting the Federal Reserve to print $7,4985tn to increase the US money supply from $15tn to $7,500tn - and then simultaneously both not expect prices to go up and for American's to exchange US $ banknotes 1:1 for the Swiss Franc so all 300m Americans can be millionaires...
<b.chasting - if you're still concerned about the validity of direct links to Excel files, here's the CBI statistics page. The document you want is "Key Financial Indicators" under "Statistical Documents" subheading:-
http://www.cbi.iq/index.php?pid=Statistics
Ok Barry fair enough. "Yes chasting for writing this "If you do nothing at all at least do us all a favor and shut down this toxic silly blog." Yes I own this remark and my point of view on it hasnt changed. It really is a hurtful, degrading, bad blog. But I have left it open on my end because I have found value in it. It has become entertainment for me to tell you the truth because the content is appeasing to me. Barry, (and company) for the sake of manners and not the dinar investment, you have to admit your not the most engaging gentlemen.Again its for my entertainment so I wish no hurtful intentions here. Im simply an "outsider looking in" so please refrain from calling me names and continue your debate. From your point of view I have lost all my investment. Well lets fast forward into the future and we see nothing happened for the dinar and I lost my shorts. Well then Sir Barry you were right and I was wrong. You see Barry I can admit I may be wrong, can you? The reality is none of us are fortune tellers so you could be wrong as well. Again I wish the very best for you and yours...respectfully.
PS. Who was Dominic Meller who edited your xls 22 Aug 2005? Thank you for your honest commentary.
Barry, certainly not wanting to be a "thorn in your side" here just wanting some accurate and current information. I did what you suggested regarding Ms Mary Woolford but I do not see anything curret. I am politely requesting any new information and statistics regarding her commentary and data referring to the CBI. Can you please provide something more current other than 2005? Thank you for your time. The very best to you and yours.
reference:
http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNADQ300.pdf
"Yes I own this remark and my point of view on it hasnt changed. It really is a hurtful, degrading, bad blog."
It's nothing of the kind chasting. Dozens of open-minded people have posted how helpful it is on both this topic and others on the Dinar. Only 3 people say they have been "hurt" by it - you, Trevor and Doc, and although you have partly debated, and Trevor did so once out of 20 times (and Doc just perma-trolls), in all cases the "hurt" seems to be nothing more than your personal frustrations at being unable to meet economic facts like for like (or even produce one single fact explaining how the "RV" is even mathematically possible let alone likely) in a debate, so it has ended up either 1. You trying to shut down debate (censorship), 2. Demanding "respect" for making false assertions and claiming beliefs should be respected on par with proven facts of how currencies work, or 3. Playground name-calling. It isn't "our side" who have dragged down the tone from pages 1-6, it's those suddenly appeared on page 6 and have done nothing but screech juvenile "ya'll this" and "ya'll that" insults 3 times daily...
"You see Barry I can admit I may be wrong, can you?"
Not when you claim the impossible (that Iraq will have more money than every country on Earth including Iraq...). No. For the same reason I'm also not going to admit I could be wrong in saying "a blade of grass cannot be larger than a lawn of which the blade makes up a part". All you're doing is demanding emotional tribute, ie, "Please, please say you could be wrong to keep my hopes alive".
I do this (trade currencies) for a living and I genuinely do know what I'm talking about. You are asking me the equivalent of trying to get a vet to "admit" that it's possible for a dog to have 4,000 legs instead of 4. And the vet isn't "egotistical", "disrespectful", "insulting" or "rude" for turning round and saying a flat out "No. Not now, not ever. It's physiologically impossible regardless of your strong beliefs to the contrary." And you calling the vet "degrading hurtful bad man" for not respecting" your beliefs with equal merit.
It's nothing more than Dinaholic propaganda to keep trying to shove out the old "No-one can possibly know more than me because I say so". That's basically what you're saying every time you say "no-one can possibly know what will happen". Fact : Iraq will either redenominate or they won't. No-one knows when - I agree with that. Will it be this year or next? I don't know when. There you go. But the "RV" in the sense of a country having more money than the planet on which that country makes up 1% is no more a mathematical / economic reality than a 4,000 legged dog, that will never, ever happen...
PS. Who was Dominic Meller who edited your xls 22 Aug 2005? Thank you for your honest commentary.
Presumably one of many translators, colleagues, etc, who work there (or even the webmaster / legal proof-reader). The document I've given you was genuine. And I've also given you the main page to that document's link from the CBI's own site. Unless you're going to claim the entire Central Bank of Iraq website is fake, there's little more I can add. You do realise such documents are "rolling" in nature and regularly updated / edited by several people rather than rewritten from scratch by one single person each time?
It's very interesting that even now, when given a 100% solid simple verifiable fact, your instinct is to attack / attempt to discredit the messenger rather than address the fact even once - This is in fact, exactly where you've been going wrong all along. You are "hurt" because other people talk facts and you three shoot the messengers - then when the messengers shoot back and you claim to be "victims" of "abuse". The pattern is very noticeable.
If you're that paranoid, Google "Iraq M2 money supply" and you'll see plenty of sites pointing out how huge and devalued it is. Here's a graph from an independent site showing exactly the same thing:-
"The Money and quasi money (M2) (current LCU) in Iraq was last reported at 61,393,052,000,000.00 (61tn) in 2010, according to a World Bank report"
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/money-and-quasi-money-m2-current-lcu-wb-data.html
Since then the Iraq's money supply has been growing in double digit figures and is now 72tn. This is simple fact from both the CBI and the World Bank, with no need to attack anyone. Have a good evening.
chasting: "It really is a hurtful, degrading, bad blog."
Absolute rubbish. This place is a gold-mine of information and intelligent debate. That it's heavily one-sided comes from the "RV" crowd persistently running away from addressing any facts and resorting to juvenile insults as a substitute because there ultimately is nothing but "I want to believe" emotions supporting the "RV".
Barry: "It's nothing of the kind chasting. Dozens of open-minded people have posted how helpful it is on both this topic and others on the Dinar. Only 3 people say they have been "hurt" by it - you, Trevor and Doc, and although you have partly debated, and Trevor did so once out of 20 times (and Doc just perma-trolls), in all cases the "hurt" seems to be nothing more than your personal frustrations at being unable to meet economic facts like for like (or even produce one single fact explaining how the "RV" is even mathematically possible let alone likely) in a debate, so it has ended up either 1. You trying to shut down debate (censorship), 2. Demanding "respect" for making false assertions and claiming beliefs should be respected on par with proven facts of how currencies work, or 3. Playground name-calling. It isn't "our side" who have dragged down the tone from pages 1-6, it's those suddenly appeared on page 6 and have done nothing but screech juvenile "ya'll this" and "ya'll that" insults 3 times daily..."
Nailed it in one. Nothing "hurtful" here apart from certain people's pride & frustration at not winning well constructed arguments backed up with facts.
At the end of the day, this is a serious investment forum - not a pumper rumor mill. If all you want is feel-good unquestioning 'positive reinforcement' and being surrounded by banana-republic style 'yes-men' you're in the wrong place...
This thread is getting so stupid .
Let's just wrap it up.....
To the naysayers .... Let's move on.
To the dreamers....... Keep dreaming
To the pumpers/scammers..... I hope you get arrested and do serious time in a real prison.
LOL SOMEBODY IS ADMIRING THEIR ON COMMENTS.I'm not impressed.Amazing how folks are trying to convince themselves of what???//They are right???
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chasting : "Barry, (and company) for the sake of manners and not the dinar investment, you have to admit your not the most engaging gentlemen."
Barry has probably been the most patient and consistently engaging person here. Far more than is warranted given some people's childish behavior and rudeness...
Nothing "toxic" in the blog at all. A (very) few people are just upset because they've been told what they need to know instead of what they want to hear.
I'm very engaging,i'm just wise when it comes to hot air and vain rhetoric.It's quite obvious some are more interested in saying a whole lot with no substance far as I'm concern.Amazing how some are so out of touch with reality,they are creating things that don't even exist.Words such as moron,upset,fearful,scared,stupid,unlearn,uninformed and on and on.All these words that are being directed toward those who disagrees with these smart guys.Now have u smart guys invested in the dinar????
How do a person debate against something they have invested in??Why should anyone consider something that a person say they believe is a bad investment and that is the dinar and still they have invested in it lol.What kinda sense does that make.You guys won't deny that y'all HAVEN'T INVESTED IN THE DINAR.LOL Btw what is the debate anyway?????I hold a foreign currency that I got from a bank,so where is the debate smart guys????Y'all don't believe it's a currency???Okay y'all believe it will denominate?Well that's an opinion not a debate.And I think someone said something about a lop,that's an opinion.Now what y'all need to do is go and define the definition of a debate.Because all i've heard is someones opinions.Any one with intelligents understand that ppl are entitled to their opinions.I personally don't debate something that hasn't happen yet.So smart guys what don't y'all understand?Go and read your info which are ppls opinions and not facts.LOL
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Let me try to show u guys your faults.Only 3 ppl have been hurt?Is that what someone said?LOL and mention me as being in that number what a lie.What's wrong with J masters,lol this guy is OFF.And this guy Baryy and his analogies are amazing>LOL senseless,no substance,madness.He ain't no real forex tradee,lolWhat currency is he trading on?None,these guys need to just post their emails so they can learn something.When reading their info it's like reading paragraphs upon paragraphs of someones opinions that they have created in their own mind.And they are cheering themselves on as if to believe what is being said is facts.Trevor notice no one else is even giving them the time of day.My radio show will have multitudes of ppl open for a sane dialog.I will not allow all this fluff and high five one another.LOL we will allow Ali and others to give THEIR OPINIONS and info respectfully.I will be giving the adm my contact to give to some but not all.Becuz one thing I will not tolerate is ignorant ppl.My who come on my talk show are ppl with common and respectful sense.I don't have any problem with folks speaking their opinion but they really NEED TO ADMIT what they are saying is their opinion.How do anyone form their mouth to say the dinar will NOT revalue is crazy.Right now that's an opin,And when reading what these guys are saying as being facts????WOW
This for you smart guys!
I would like to take just a minute or two of your time and offer to you a common-sense approach to look at these two very confusing terms!
These two terms are simply nothing more than a casual language expression for the Iraqi Banks taking the IQD currency "old" bills which have "three zeros" on them (i.e. the 1,000; 5,000; 10,000 & 25,000 IQD Notes) and removing them from the Iraqi Economy! That's it! Nothing More!
I guess you guys can comprehend this.lol
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE WE ALL CAN RELATE TO
In the United States, several years back, when the Federal Reserve wanted to roll out our "new" currency with the "large" pictures on them to better fight counterfeiting (humm, sound familiar?), what did The Fed Reserve do? The Fed Reserve told all the Banks to "delete" the "old" US currency (i.e. "small" pictures) from our US Economy! Right? And, note this, the Fed Reserve told our Banks to "delete" the "old" US currency, but it is still valuable, you can still spend it, right???!!!
So, how are the US based Banks able to "Delete" the "old" US Currency?
Simple, whenever the Banks receive an "old" currency note they hold it, then send it to the Fed Reserve, where the Fed Reserve will destroy those "old" notes.
DOES THIS NOW MAKE SENSE?
Comparing what the United State's Fed Reserve is still doing with "deleting" our "old" (small pictures) currency to that which Iraq's Central Bank (www.CBI.iq) is essentially going to do with the process of "deleting" their "old" (three-zeros) currency to replace it with the "new" currency, does this now make sense to you? Because it made sense to me when I heard it explained.
Think about this also, the head of the CBI, Dr. Shabibi has said that this will be a process which will take two years. He has also said in a very recent News Article the CBI plans to honor all of the "old" (three-zero) currency notes for at least 10 years!
Now you know the truth of the process!!! And not what you may have heard or read on an "Intel" or "Rum-tel" site. There is no need to panic. Think about it, if you still are holding on to "old" US Currency, you can still use it - right?
Barry :- "BTW, I just double-checked on Iraq’s money supply (M2). It’s actually now a whopping 72 trillion! That just makes the 1:1 banknote swap “RV” argument look even more idiotic given there are only $12-15tn US dollars, €10tn Euro’s and about $60tn of total combined currency in the world…"
I had no idea it crept up that high. They must be printing huge amounts of money. It's clear a redenomination is Iraq's only answer for moving the currency's value vs the Dollar (or any other currency). I heard the only main reason why they keep putting off the redenomination is because of inflation (it defeats the object of trying to reduce money in circulation whilst simultanously expanding money supply by 30-odd percent?)
In any case, thank you for your posts and time put into them. I don't trade Forex professionally (but know exactly how fiat currencies work due to gold / silver trading) and have heard this scam so many times and every single time it ends up with the same "impossible maths" debunking it and nothing more than raging emotions / personal attacks / appeals to ego from those who bought into it.
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Something to chew on smart guys,■Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 –
$200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment
that cost $10
■Bank’s Net Gain: $200 added to
“capital account”, plus $2,000 they can use to loan out.
■US Treasury Net Gain: $2,500
from the .25 spread on top + $3,500 in quarterly taxes = $6,000
■CBI/GOI/Iraqi People Net Gain:
$12,500 – $162.50 = $12,337.50 + Profits from
“Other Factors”
■Overall Net Gain for All
Involved: $6,370+$200+$6,000+12,337.20 = $24,907.20
This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was
given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?! You
tell me… can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!
In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS… and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind, having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!
Now let me explain in details or in speculative terms,How Fractional Banking Economics will allow a high RV EXPLAINED:
First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help
explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio
between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.
What You Will Receive:
If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2%
spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your
bank account.
What Your Bank Will Receive:
Your Bank will receive a $10,000 credit to its Federal Reserve Account. They
will also be able to add the $200 profit to their “capital account”.
If you don’t understand the “Fractional Banking“ concept that runs our country, you may want to, as that is what this is based on, and is what is behind this entire concept and plan.I guess you smart guys understand this term?Let me continue.lol
Ultimately, the bank wins because they are able to gain $2,000 in lending power under the 10% “Fractional Banking“ model.
What the US Treasury Will Receive:
First off, the US Treasury will receive $3,500 in estimated taxes in the
quarter after the exchange, because you are now in the “rich” category and get to enjoy the 35% tax bracket. This lowers the “net cost” of the IQD exchange to the US financial system to $6,500 USD (i.e. $10,000 out – $3,500 in).
Smart guys learn to listen in order to listen to learn
Furthermore, the US Treasury’s rate is higher than the banking rate (we will
use in this example 1.25), thereby further reducing their “net cost” from
$6,500 to $4,000.
Oil Now Enters the Picture:
At some point, a Fed-appointed agent orders $12,500 worth of oil from Iraq.
Payment will consist of a $12,500 transfer from the Fed’s foreign currency
reserve IQD account to the IRAQ Oil payment account at the CBI in a form
otherwise known as PetroDollars/PetroDinar. Even though the world spot price of oil is defined in terms of USD, the actual transaction may take place in any internationally recognized currency agreed to by the parties. For example, Iran only accepts Yen from Japan for their oil orders, because they don’t want USD in their foreign currency reserves.
Y'all ask for it now here it is,lol
How the CBI “RECAPTURES” the Money:
The $12,500 order is filled with 250 barrels of oil based on the spot price on
the date of the sale (for this example we used a $50 USD spot price). What does it cost Iraq to produce the oil to fill this order? Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel. From that price $.50 USD goes to the national Iraqi oil company who is the partner in the field the oil came from. Out of the remaining $1.00 the other oil field partners have to pay the Iraq government a profit tax of $.35 USD (35%). The net cost to Iraq to produce a barrel of oil used in this scenario is $.65 USD. (i.e. $1.50 – .50 – .35)
What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note!
Can they afford that? I think so! So, instead of paying out $12,500 for a
10,000 IQD note, they only pay $162.50! That doesn’t add to the money supply much at all does it! They receive their IQD back and place it in the CBI, or destroy it.
The transaction is completed with the Federal Reserve exchanging foreign
reserve credits which are equal to $12,500 USD (which had a net acquisition
cost of $4,000 USD for the US) for 250 barrels of oil (which has a TOTAL COST to produce of $162.50 USD for Iraq.
More completely explained, and simply put, it cost Iraq $162.50 USD from their foreign currency reserve accounts to redeem the value of 10,000 IQD, which goes into their operating accounts. At the same time the US got $12,500 worth of oil for a net cost of $4,000. That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD, with the variable being the political element (i.e. UN Sanctions, GOI actions, IMF actions, World Bank actions etc.)
Doc - Assuming you're serious and not just trolling again, I'll bite:-
Doc - "These two terms are simply nothing more than a casual language expression for the Iraqi Banks taking the IQD currency “old” bills which have “three zeros” on them (i.e. the 1,000; 5,000; 10,000 & 25,000 IQD Notes) and removing them from the Iraqi Economy! That’s it! Nothing More!
I guess you guys can comprehend this.lol"
Banks don't go around ripping up people's banknotes without giving nothing in return. That's called "stealing". Iraq haven't removed ANY money from circulation - proof of which lies in the fact their money supply is going UP not down! The "Iraq have been removing larger notes from the economy" is a flat out lie. Removing larger notes from circulation with no redenomination would result in economic ruin as Iraqi's would just run out of money, stop spending and cause economic collapse / depression. It's utterly baseless and has been debunked so many times (including by the CBI's M1 figures themselves) it's unfunny people still lie about something which takes all of 5 seconds to debunk...
Doc - "In the United States, several years back, when the Federal Reserve wanted to roll out our “new” currency with the “large” pictures on them to better fight counterfeiting (humm, sound familiar?), what did The Fed Reserve do? The Fed Reserve told all the Banks to “delete” the “old” US currency (i.e. “small” pictures) from our US Economy! Right?"
Wrong. You are utterly, utterly confused. Introducing new banknotes to combat counterfeiting / just change designs has nothing to do with any redenomination and occurs in countries all the time. Central banks replace banknotes all the time due to being torn, damaged, etc. US banks haven't "deleted" any currency (lopped). You're just doing the typical pumper thing in crayoning in your own twisted definitions and false analogies of what "delete currency" means.
All this stems from an article circulating that said Iraq was going to withdraw 70% of excess liquidity. Confused pumpers believed that meant Iraq was taking 70% of the money supply out of circulation and twisted its meaning around so that gullible people would fall for it. What it actually means is reducing an excess of cash held by a bank above what is required by the regulatory authorities (for bank stability purposes).
Doc - "Because it made sense to me when I heard it explained."
I'm not the slightest bit surprised...
Doc - "Think about this also, the head of the CBI, Dr. Shabibi has said that this will be a process which will take two years. He has also said in a very recent News Article the CBI plans to honor all of the “old” (three-zero) currency notes for at least 10 years!"
He also said "there will be a redenomination not a revaluation". Repeatedly. Including once in plain English during his Washington visit...
Doc - "Investor’s Net Gain: $10,000 – $200 = $9,800 x .65 = 6,370 for an investment that cost $10"
This is the wealth that was generated from a single 10,000 IQD note that was given an original value of approximately $10! Is that amazing or what?!
Yet another flat out lie. Go back to school and learn basic maths. 10,000 Dinar does not = $10,000. Even the $3.33 rate some badly educated "experts" are obsessed with was the value of what were known as "Swiss Dinar's" under Saddam Hussein. They got their name from the Swiss printing plates used (which were of much higher standard than the 3rd ones Iraq otherwise had), and this was the currency used prior to the 1990 Gulf War (the first one) after which they ceased to be legal tender. Since the supply of Saddam notes increased while the supply of Swiss dinar notes remained stagnant (even decreased because of torn / damaged notes without replacement), the Swiss dinar appreciated against the Saddam Dinar notes (which is exactly what "inflation" is that you desperately try and pretend doesn't exist. In fact, the northern part of Iraq (Kurdish) which continued to use Swiss Dinars partly evaded inflation, which ran rampant throughout the rest of the nation, which the author claims "doesn't exist". The old Dinar was $3.33 against the $ because it WASN'T inflated. The Saddam Dinar fell to below 1100:1 against the $ due to INFLATION during the economic sanctions. And the non-inflated "Swiss Dinars" have already been "RV'd" in 2003 at a rate of 150:1 vs the NID, ie, Iraqi's who held the non-inflated Dinar's have already been given 150 for every 1 held to match the value of the inflated NID - LONG before the Dinar hype started up. The current NID notes you hold have *never* *ever* had a market rate anywhere near $3.22 let alone 1:1 - that's just delusional fantasy / confused nostalgia.
Doc - "can Iraq afford NOT to RV?!!! Will the IMF allow them to NOT RV their currency, but simply replace their large denoms for smaller ones?!!! LOL!!!"
Yes because the IMF have already said there is nothing to "RV" to:-
"A report on Monday by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) suggests that the Iraqi dinar is currently fairly valued at 1170 dinars to the US dollar"
https://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2011/03/30/imf-suggests-stable-iraqi-dinar/
It's laughable you think "the IMF are saying this and that" when they're actually saying the exact opposite "There is no RV"...
Doc - "In this scenario, EVERYONE WINS…"
ROFL! Forex is a zero sum game. If one person pays 1000 Dinar for $1 then "RV's", then the other person suddenly will end up paying 1,000x more for the same Dinar's! People who say "everyone's a winner" are really just admitting they have absolutely no clue whatsoever about how currencies work. If I lend you $1,000 in exchange for $1 and you lend me back $1,000 for $1 are we both $2,000 richer? No. Because the money doesn't "fall out of nowhere", it comes from the person on the other end of the exchange. Stop being silly.
Doc - "and the IQD is slowly (over 2 years) taken back in to the CBI… eventually destroyed, leaving a manageable M2 behind"
You have no idea what "M2" is. "M2" is the total currency in circulation (quantity units) x their value - It can only be reduced through a redenomination. "RV" in the sense you're talking drives M2 UP not DOWN because it doesn't touch quantity whereas a redenomination does (that's the whole point of doing it and why they exist)!
Doc - "having created HUGE WEALTH throughout the world to re-supply what was allowed to be destroyed in the “great bleed” over a period of just a few weeks a couple of years ago, even the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. Believe it or not, it has happened for this very purpose, and it IS coming!"
Utter delusional fantasy. You're calling for global hyper-inflation to save the world?!? Congratulations on humiliating yourself even further... The "Iraq will save the world man by printing lots of money" is by far the silliest, most outrageous and most debunked pumper fantasy that died about 2008. I really can't believe some people are still clinging onto it... Actually scrap that - now I can truly believe it...
Doc - "If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account."
Read my lips : 10,000 IQD are not the same as $10,000. If someone were to give me $100 trillion for a $100,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwe banknote, then I would have technically $100tn of "wealth" (inflation), but that doesn't and cannot happen in the real world either.
Doc - "Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel."
Debunked BS. Good God man do you truly believe what you are typing?!? It costs them more than that to dig it up! Why in God's name would Iraq get rich selling it at a LOSS?!? Seriously? Basic maths of how much they receive from oil revenue debunks that garbage claim:-
Iraq's oil production is approx 2.4m per day (876m barrels per year) of which approx 1.8m per day (657m barrels per year) gets exported and the rest gets used domestically. If they charged $1.50 per barrel (LOL), their annual exports would be just $876-985m (not even $1bn)! Back in the real world, Iraq actually exports $78.38bn of goods every year of which 84% ($65.8bn) is oil. The real oil revenue of approx $65bn divided by 657m annual barrels exported = a real average oil export price of $100 - which is what the average spot price of oil genuinely is!
Sorry Doc, but you're taking the p*ss with this one. It's hard to conceive that you've been brainwashed that much that much you believe Iraq is selling oil for $1.50 per barrel, but you've just proven that to be true... That conspiracy theory was debunked back in 2009 and can be debunked by anyone capable of dividing Iraq's actual oil revenue by their oil production figures, and the "agreements" claimed turned out to be a complete pack of lies.
"What does all that mean? It cost Iraq $162.50 to bring back a 10,000 IQD note!"
Go back to school and learn basic maths - 10,000 DINAR'S DO NOT EQUAL $10,000!!!
"That’s how it was originally planned for Iraq to RV at 1 IQD = 1 USD"
AN RV HAS NEVER EVER BEEN PLANNED AT ALL. The Iraqi Central Bank, IMF and World Bank have always said "redenominate". The *ONLY* people to use the phrase "RV" are American pumpers & salesmen on Internet forums and Internet calls.
All you've done Doc is throw up every debunked pumper cliche and sales sound-bite in the book and proven that for all your talk of "intelligence", you've been well and truly suckered by a bunch of conmen and throw out a mish-mash of wild conspiracy theories and fantasies as "proof"!
"$1.50 barrels of oil will make Iraq richer". That's not just stupid - that's stupidly stupid.
Doc : "Well they have negotiated productions agreements for approximately $1.50 USD/barrel."
OMG! You think Iraq are selling oil to the West for $1.50 per barrel Doc? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! The $1.50 per barrel of oil isn't what Iraq are selling Oil for - it's the SERVICE CONTRACT FEE for using Western technology for exploration, ie, it's a $1.50 "cut" of what oil is actually sold for at market spot price (nearer $100 as evidenced by Iraq's $65bn oil revenues for 1.8m barrels actually sold). It doesn't even come close to the price of oil production (even without security & infrastructure investment costs) let alone oil prices themselves.
Read this:-
"Shell and Petronas have pledged to increase that output to 1.8 million barrels per day. Their venture, which includes a 20-year service contract, will receive a fee of $1.39 a barrel. In June this year, a winning bid to develop an Iraq oil field received $2 a barrel. Also on Friday, a consortium led by China's CNPC was awarded the contract for Iraq's Halfaya oil field. The consortium also includes Malaysia's Petronas and France's Total. It requested fees of $1.40 a barrel of oil extracted from the field, and projected output would reach 535,000 barrels per day."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8407274.stm
This is yet another example of pumpers jumping on something and twisting it around to mean something else entirely that's totally nonsensical! Oil is priced by the market not some centrally controlled Communist dictat you keep fantasizing about. Dear God, just when you think someone's hit rock bottom they pull out a gem like that...
As for the rest, Barry has already totally debunked and destroyed every single point you've made that there's just nothing left to say. The IMF are saying the Dinar is already "fair value" and there's nothing to "RV" to, your maths are just greed-fuelled delusions that don't add up even to your own claims, and you cannot "get richer" with hyper-inflation. It's that simple. No really.
It's also weird you talk of fractional reserve banking without understanding that the Dinar is just as much an unbacked Fiat currency as anyone else. Just because Iraq has a nationalized oil industry doesn't mean the Dinar is supported by oil (only clueless Western Dinar speculators fantasize about "oil's impact on the Dinar") - it simply means Iraq can sell oil in place of Iraqi Govt external debt (ie, barter oil for debt relief). There is no "oil backing" for the Dinar and the Dinar sure as hell won't leap up 1,000x fold just because they have some oil, (especially is oil is sold in petro-dollars...)
Over 100 other countries have oil. It didn't fall out of nowhere yesterday. Iran sells twice as much oil as Iraq yet has a 10.5x weaker currency. Venezuela has double Iraq's reserves and they lopped. It really is time to "get over it" as a confused obsession surrounding the Dinar's inflation related weak value.
DOC: "I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread."
And that's where you're going wrong. There won't be a 1:1 cash-in ratio because there isn't enough money on Earth. The ratio will be 1:1000 as declared over and over again... All your fantasy "what if" maths are flawed because of that. It's just one giant convoluted mess of wishful thinking, "what ifs" and personal desires with maths that simply don't add-up.
DOC @ "First off, I’ll use the exchange of a 10,000 IQD note as my example. To help explain the economics of this cash-in example, I will use a 1:1 cash-in ratio between the USD and IQD, that is given a two-tier payout, and a 2% bank spread.
What You Will Receive: If you were to cash in your 10,000 IQD note with a bank that charges you a 2% spread, you would personally receive a net take-home of $9,800 credited to your bank account."
That's wrong. It doesn't work like that at all. You cannot exchange 1:1 with vastly differing M2's in circulation no matter how badly you want it. That's what other people here have been trying to explain to you - Basic supply and demand. When you cash in your 10,000 IQD note, you will get $10 minus whatever spread you're charged. It's actually quite easy to understand. Why people make the Redenomination out to be more complex than it is, I don't know.
Barry, you are so right about everything. I must have lost my mind when i failed to agree with you. Thank you for showing me the way. Will you still be calling me names like Troll? Reminds me of a kid in a sandbox that didnt get his way. Still looking for your response to my question. Who was Dominic Meller who edited your xls 22 Aug 2005? It appears others have grown weary of this place too.
Author: LZ
Comment:
This thread is getting so stupid .
Let's just wrap it up.....
To the naysayers .... Let's move on.
To the dreamers....... Keep dreaming
To the pumpers/scammers..... I hope you get arrested and do serious time in a real prison
what ive been saying all along....silly blog.
chasting - I've already replied to your question - he's probably a member of staff. Yet again all you can do is attack the messenger ("OMG! I must know the personal details of every single person who ever edited it!!!") rather than address the simple fact in question (there are 72tn Dinar's in circulation). I'm not going to feed your personal inquisitions against CBI staff members. The document is valid and the official CBI website on which it is hosted is 100% genuine. Deal with it and get over it.
LOL. Your a funny man Barry. Im dealing with it....getting over it.
Yes J.Masters i am indeed in the wrong place. Thanks for the guiding light out of here.
"A (very) few people are just upset because they’ve been told what they need to know instead of what they want to hear".....John Richardson please continue your perspective on this dinar scam. Im not upset at all...its enlighting and intriguing to hear your point of view. Im hear to listen and view and certainly dont want to impede your good commentary.I have other places I go to have my ear tickled to hear what i want to hear. Please proceed....
Chasting if you notice they absolutely dodges the info,a bind person can see that.LOL these guys are not that very smart at all.They are impostors.They all are probably one in the same sitting somewhere in a basement with nothing to do.lol HOLDING ON TO A FEW DINARS,becuz that's all they can afford.They can't even comprehend the simplest things that are spoken.lol It's comical.I spoke about how our country/countries destroy old money when turned in,they immediate ut their own twist to it.By saying no one tears up money with out giving something in return.lol tear up?something in return?Wow what are these guys taking>?And they want to ride on the money supply in the world to say that a 1 to 1 can't be done?Common sense states that everyone will not cash in at the same time.lol Just like the stock market,Whether it's high or low all investors don't pull their money out.This shows how very,very ignorant this person is.They have no other recourse but to call names.That's what very ignorant,unlearn folks do.Twist what is being said becuz they can't dismantle it.Code words like OMG,MORON,YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME ETC.Never dealt with fractional backing,nor the federal reserves holdings,neither interest rates,etc.They really don't know how the money system works neither the banking system.It's very elementary.
When a person adds value to something it brings more value often times.The currency we have is a real currency.The value of it is minimal we all know that,now who can actually say they won't revalue this currency???Only a dummy will attempt to discount the possibility of this happening.Even if they did redenom there still must be added value to the redenom.That would be stupid and suicide,it just doesn't make common sense.LET ME EXPLAIN FOR THESE SMART GUYS.I have $20 and they decide to print more money say in increments of 5s well how much would my 20 be worth and how much is my 5 worth?If my 20 is worth 0 dollars how can my 5 be worth anything???Okay now most everyone has a $25,000 dinar/note these guys are speculating they are going to take the tree 0s off and it will be 25 dinar.lol Ok so the 250,500, etc will be worth what???Notice that what they are saying doesn't make sense.If the 25,000 has value already and you're not going to raise the value of the currency why print more?That's plan stupid.I guess these smart guys don't see that.The ppl will turn in there currency for what??More money that's worthless,is that the plan.Spend more money to print more money that's worth the same???LOL
Barry, please stop by with your questions. I for one will be looking to hear from you on this Q and A. Open invite so come on down. DinarAlert is hosting another Conference Call...Monday, June 11th @ 8pm CST hosted by Enorrste, Russell and Kaperoni.
This call with be a discussion of recent events, articles within Iraq that pertains to our investment. Q & A will follow.
Please join us.
(805) 399-1000 Code: 296983#
Skype:freeconferencing.8053991000
The printing of the money if that does happen is not for value but convenience.Most of the ppl have the 25,000 currency.So if you remove these dinars from the streets just like in our country.You have a more manageable currency around.That's common sense.This doesn't have anything to do with pumpers or guru's but common sense.Capitalism is alive and well.Now does this means ppl will be rich???Who knows I sure don't know.Does this mean the rate will be 1 to 1 or something who knows that.All I know is I've invested in another countries progress and future by investing in their currency.Now whatever they decide to do i'm willing to wait and see..For me this is a real genuine investment so therefore I can't lose becuz I know the pros and cons of this.My eyes were wide open when I got in this smart guys.So there is nothing anyone can say good or bad that will make me feel other wise.Again learn to listen and you just might listen to learn.Smart guys,now let the name calling begin.LOL
Chasting & Doc - why are you two so utterly terrified to debate here and so desperate to "debate" on biased forums. Look at the name of your call "Dinar Alert" - as if a banknote replacement and redenomination will suddenly pop out of nowhere without any advance warning to 30m Iraqi's that you need to subscribe (and pay a fee of course) to receive a phone call telling you the same thing you can get for free via any serious FX website in real time.
"Hey dad! What are these new Dinar notes flooding around?" "I don't know son, no-one tells us dumb Iraqi's about Iraqi currency - you need to ask some people 6,000 miles away for that!" Are you that sucked into scam sites that you honestly do not see how utterly absurd (and even patronising verging on racist - "Iraqi's are clueless - only American guru's know the TRUTH!") that "secret intel" stuff looks like? Seriously? I have a better idea. Why don't you two debate here without running away or name calling for once...
chasting: "DinarAlert is hosting another Conference Call…"
LOL. Anyone who promotes a "Conference Call" from people who've spent years pushing the "My source says this weekend, my source says tomorrow! RV this month!" BS 1,734 times in a row to keep people "on edge" automatically discredits themselves. Dinar Alert. LOL. People people who don't pay a subscription fee are "in the dark sleepers, dude".
Doc, would you mind explaining to everyone why a Google search on some of your posts earlier shows that you've taken an article from another site and reposted here word for word as your own? That's not very honest is it?
Here's the link to "your" stolen article. Google shows it up as 100% identical:-
http://dinartalk.tumblr.com/post/5275796933/how-fractional-banking-economics-will-allow-a-high-rv
J Masters all you've done is pumped and pushed your opinions.You haven't said much that is factual.You and the rest of the fellows are guru's of another kind.
At least I don't steal and plagiarize Doc. You are now a proven LIAR.