History’s lesson for the dinar

I used to think that rapid increases in Iraqi oil production would practically guarantee a significant strengthening of the dinar over the next ten years. Surprisingly, however, history suggests that this is far from a foregone conclusion.

While the Oil Ministry claims that Iraqi capacity will rise by 10 million barrels per day (mn bbl/d) to something like 12 mn bbl/d by the end of this decade, few analysts take this projection seriously. In fact, no country has ever achieved such a large incremental increase in a ten-year period. Historically, a recent study by the Energy Policy Research Foundation (available at http://www.eprinc.org/pdf/EPRINC-Iraq-FirstLook.pdf) found that Saudi Arabia came closest, with an increase of about 6 mn bbl/d (up 150%) from 1970 – 79, followed by Iran, which went from around 2 – 6 mn bbl/d from 1965 – 1974, and Russia, which raised production by some 4 mn bbl/d (68%) from 1998 – 2007.

But suppose for the sake of argument that Iraq was able to match these precedents and raised production from approximately 2 mn bbl/d at present to, say, 6 mn bbl/d by 2019. What would happen to the dinar if it followed a trajectory similar to the Saudi riyal, Iranian rial, or Russian ruble during the oil booms in those three countries?

Not much, as it turns out. If it’s like the riyal or the ruble, the dinar would actually depreciate in US dollar terms by 25% or 16%, respectively. And the rial appreciated by just 12% from 1965 – 1974. (See chart. As the indices are based on year-end US$/local currency exchange rates, increases/decreases in an index correspond to appreciation/depreciation against the dollar.)

The problem with the idea that increased oil production must be bullish for the dinar is that it is based on the assumption that nothing changes except the output of oil (what economists call a “ceteris paribus” assumption). In fact, however, many other things can be expected to change. In the case of a large country like Russia, for example, domestic demand for refined products may rise significantly as well so that exports don’t go up at the same pace as crude production volumes. In the Saudi and Iranian cases, oil booms led to import booms, with the result that demand for foreign exchange rose along with increased export earnings. There might also be scenarios in which an increasingly confiscatory taxation regime led to greater dollar demand due to capital flight. And of course exporting more barrels won’t necessarily lead to higher forex revenues during an oil-price slump.

History’s lesson for the dinar is that whether it strengthens or weakens over the next decade will depend not only on Iraq’s success in increasing oil production but also on the economic changes that this increased production induces. If Iraqi demand for imports and refined products were frozen for ten years at current levels, a 4 mn bbl/d production increase would be unambiguously dinar positive. But in a more realistic scenario, supply and demand for foreign exchange are likely to grow together, with the result that the exchange rate may not deviate dramatically from its current level.

600 Responses to History’s lesson for the dinar

  1. Rabibi 23rd January 2011 at 21:44 #

    JC, what do you think of the security situation there. I am reading that if Maliki doesn't appoint the security members to the cabinet that they could give Maliki a vote of no confidence. It seems that Al Sadr really stirred up the hornets nest. Your thoughts on how this will affect the IQD?

  2. Stew 23rd January 2011 at 21:55 #

    JC... I'm still not sure you understand the difference between a pegged and a floating currency. All of the middle east currencies are pegged. Yes they are listed on Forex, like all currencies, but they don't get their value from FX trading. Their values are set by their Central Banks and those central banks have to support/defend that value.

  3. JC 23rd January 2011 at 23:53 #

    Yes, Maliki's in trouble. He stood back, tried to retain too much power, while the people are starving. Now, he is facing the boot if he drags this out any further. Allawi is the guy the US wants in there anyway, because Maliki is pro Iranian.

    Yes, Stew, I do understand the difference between pegged and floating currency. I also understand at no time in history, has a country with 500 BILLION barrels in proven oil reserves, who wants back in the GCC, the WTO and to be the major player in the ME oil boom, ever been in this kind of position before. Stew, you show articles from early 2010, while I show articles from 2011, late 2010. Oil has risen nearly $40 a barrel since then. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the trends here.

  4. Rabibi 24th January 2011 at 08:25 #

    JC,

    What are you seeing on the Forex this morning?

  5. gr 24th January 2011 at 08:29 #

    TIMELINE:
    Jan 18 - Fed Court in Iraq turns control of Central Bank of Iraq over to Maliki and his govt.
    Jan 21 - IQD 'paired' to USD on Forex.
    Jan 22 - announced Biden will intervene and get behind Maliki to appoint Minister of Security positions
    Jan 24 - UN gets involved with Govt taking over CBI

    Wow, an eventful week. Let's see what happens next.

  6. JC 24th January 2011 at 11:30 #

    What I'm seeing on Forex so far is movement in the wrong direction, but minor at that. Most likely caused by fluxuation in the value of the dollar. Currently at 1166.5, up from 1156.5, but still below the 1,170 mark.

  7. Stew 24th January 2011 at 14:36 #

    So the dinar, which is about to increase in value 100,000% or more, and that's obvious to everyone. Well... it's on the FX and none will bid better than 1166 for it?
    LOL... now back to reality.
    According the CBI of Iraq, it's foeriegn assets are now subject to seizure due to being placed under the supervision of the cabinet.
    http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090000551764/Iraq_central_bank_slams_ruling_placing_it_under_cabinet/Article.htm
    That is not good news for dinar speculators.

  8. James 26th January 2011 at 13:19 #

    OK Stew explain this my friend

    The 2011 Iraqi budget draft has been approved have a look at this

    Here is an excerpt from the recent Iraqi 2011 Budget article that gives possibility to a new exchange rate: “The Iraqi government has approved the draft federal budget law for fiscal year 2011, so inform the budget some 93 billion Iraqi dinars (79.6 billion dollars), when calculated per barrel to $ 73 U.S., and the rate of export of 2.25 million barrels per day.”

    NOW if you do the math on this that means the new exchange rate would be 0.855 per Dinar or 1.168 Dinar per dollar now if you say im wrong or a pumper then your crazy cause this is news my friend

  9. JC 26th January 2011 at 14:46 #

    Hey James,
    I listened to a conference call hosted by the BH group 2 days ago. In it, Rudy Cohen, former currency specialist for JP Morgan Chase, and well documented Iraqi Dinar expert, was laying out the facts, that people like Stewart wouldn't have the first clue about.

    The 27 Trillion in dinar? According to De La Rue, the new Iraqi dinar only had 26 Billion of PAPER currency printed. The rest is purely digital currency, also known as fractional banking. What the US, and the rest of the countries are holding as payment against Iraqs debt, is strictly electronic currency. Iraq is transitioning to an all electronic currency, with their smart card system.

    James, great news story, and goes along with what I am hearing. Lots of news with Governor Shabibi , with new activity at the CBI. Also, news about the ruling that was handed down being overturned with a parliamentary amendment that is in the works.

    We are almost at the finish line. Hang in there.

  10. Rabibi 26th January 2011 at 14:49 #

    JC,

    Would the smart card system be like check cards? If they're going all electronic what do you think this means for the paper dinar?

  11. Stew 26th January 2011 at 14:54 #

    Jame... there have been dozens and dozens of articles lately about the Iraqi budget and they all state TRILLIONS of dinar. My guess is that this one is a typo/mistake... not that unusual.
    Now then... even if is not a typo/mistake, that doesn't mean it's an RV. They have stated over and over again that they are going to redenominate. That is a lop... delete 3 zeros. If they redenominate and delete 3 zeros the new rate will be .85

  12. James 26th January 2011 at 15:05 #

    Stew if its not a typo http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=www.swalefnalhelwa.com/news.php%3Faction%3Dview%26id%3D1002

    Then it could mean a RV once this budget is approved

  13. Stew 26th January 2011 at 15:12 #

    It can not be a 100,000% RV... that is a thing of fantasy. It's ludicrous, preposterous, absurd, outrageous, ridiculous, and above all impossible.

    Now... a redenomination/lop and delete 3 zeros makes perfect sense and has been done many many times in this exact situation.

  14. Stew 26th January 2011 at 15:14 #

    Keep PUMPING JC... Rudy Cohen is just another part of the scam.

  15. James 26th January 2011 at 15:25 #

    Stew if they are wrong about the 27 trillion , (typo) or just not wanting to let everyone know the truth then why cant they RV at 0.85 you know it could be 27 billion not 27 trillion Look if i was running the CBI and knew about people like me that holds dinar why would i tell anyone its gonna RV , The VA lottery doesnt tell people what the numbers are before it happens now again if its 27 billion then i do believe it could happen and it could be even less than 27 billion

  16. Stew 26th January 2011 at 15:46 #

    James... the original currency swap at the end of 2003 put 4.5 trillion dinars into circulation. Over the last 7 years that number has now grown to 28 trillion. The CBI has documented the growth in that number every single month on their website. There have been numorous articles where CBI officials along the way have stated they have Trillions in circulation. The IMF also reports those same numbers. There have been dealers selling it by the stacks of millions for the last 7 years all over the world. There is nothing... and I mean NOTHING that would lead me to believe those numbers aren't true. If you want to try and convince me the numbers are off by 10% I wont argue the point, but to claim they are off by 100,000% is a bit silly.

  17. Stew 26th January 2011 at 15:58 #

    Here is the CBI chart.
    http://www.cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls
    Line 76. Currency outside of Banks. 23.8 trillion
    Line 80. ID vault cash. 3.45 trillion.
    That's a total of 27.3 Trillion, last reported in Nov. They have always been a few months behind.

    Maybe JC or his new buddy Rudy Cohen can explain how currency outside of a bank is electronic. LOL

    Now... if you add the electronic portion of their money supply to the currency in circulation, that's what the M1 and M2 numbers are.
    Current M1 is 49.7 Trillion
    Current M2 is 58.1 Trillion.

    Facts... not fiction.

  18. Stew 26th January 2011 at 16:03 #

    Iraq Central Bank also explains the numebrs...
    http://www.cbi.iq/documents/Key_Financial_Indicators_Documentation.pdf
    a - Currency outside banks, i.e., the currency component of the money supply as
    shown in the Analytical Balance sheet (Item 8) which is derived from the following sources(currency put into circulation reported by Issuing Dept. less vault cash(item 8.1 of AnalyticalBalance Sheet) reported by Research & Statistics Dept.). From December 2003, currency in circulation is the new currency issued by the CBI less redemption of old and damaged new currency notes.

    Money Supply (M2)
    Monthly: Reported by Research & Statistics Department (as at the end of the month, in billions of Dinar) from the monthly regulatory reports of all commercial banks.
    Currency in Circulation outside of banks (see 4.a above)
    Deposits in Commercial Banks, excluding central government deposits, interbank accounts, and accounts of a current nature.

  19. JC 26th January 2011 at 16:14 #

    The CBI website takes into account ALL currency, paper and electronic. De La Rue has NEVER printed 27 trillion of ANYTHING currency wise. Do you really expect us to believe, a country that had just come out of a set of wars that drained their finances to nothing, with an old currency that became worthless, would have the capital to pay De La Rue for 27 trillion dinar? Hell no!

    I know Rudy Cohens qualifications. I know he was a very high ranking executive with JP Morgan Chase for FIFTEEN YEARS! I'm going to take the word and qualifications of someone like Rudy over a nameless person like you Stew.

    Your only rebuttal is to once again squawk "pumper". LMAO!

  20. JC 26th January 2011 at 16:18 #

    Yes, they are heading towards an all digital system, and it's not just Iraq.

  21. JC 26th January 2011 at 16:21 #

    Show me this exact situation you are claiming Stew, because in the history of the world, NO COUNTRY HAS EVER HAD THEIR CURRENCY ARTIFICIALLY DEVALUED BY AN OPPRESSING FORCE (US AND UN), HAD THE RICHEST RESOURCES IN THE WORLD (Now with 500 BILLION in PROVEN oil reserves) and then LOPPED their currency. Your claim is ludicrous at best, because THIS situation has NEVER EVER happened before.

  22. Stew 26th January 2011 at 16:39 #

    It doesn't matter how many time you are shown... you simply ign0ore facts and believe everything the pumpers tell you.
    It is a fabrcated lie that the US/UN artificially devalued the dinar... BLATANT lie.

    Here from the CBI web site.
    http://www.cbi.iq/index.php?pid=History
    "
    By 1987 the banking system consisted of the Central Bank, the Rafidain Bank, the Agricultural, Industrial, and Real Estate banks. A 5 percent devaluation reduced the value of the dinar to US$3.2169, the official rate which remained until the Gulf War, although in late 1989, the black market rate was reported to be 1.86 dinars for US$1.
    1990 - 2003
    After the Gulf War in 1991, and due to the economic blockade, the previously used Swiss printing technology was no longer available. A new, inferior quality notes issue was produced. The previous issue became known as the Swiss dinar and continued to circulate in the Kurdish region of Iraq. Due to excessive government printing of the new notes issue, the dinar devalued quickly, and in late 1995, US$1 was valued at 3,000 dinars."

    So… according the CBI the rate had already fallen to 1.86 dinar per dollar in 1989. That’s 54 cents per dinar.
    They then explain that a new inferior quality note was issued… and DUE TO EXCESSIVE GOVERNMENT PRINTING the dinar quickly devalued to 3000 dinars to the dollar by 1995.
    Does that sound like like a forced devaluation??? Stop lying. I’m sure you wont. You will be right back on dinar boards and even on this thread pushing the same tired old lies over and over even though you are being proven wrong… and not by me… but by the Central Bank of Iraq.

  23. JC 26th January 2011 at 17:38 #

    OMG you are just clueless.

    Why were Chapter 7 sanctions brought against Iraq?

    Why was the old swiss printing technology no longer available?

    Why was the Saddam note replaced with the new IQD?

    Because we kicked their asses in Desert Storm 2, removed a ruthless dictator, and installed a new democratic government.

    The rates you used, the $186, by your own notes was alleged black marketm but was NEVER an official CBI rate.

    Excess printing. Where does it say 27 trillion IN PRINT! It doesn't!!

    I will bet you ANY amount of dollars you want, you are not in any way shape of form associated with a bank. You haven't the foggiest idea what goes on behind closed doors. You have no clue that the Rothchilds own the CBI, and THEY are in bed with the US government. Iraq dances to OUR strings. We are the conductor of this orchestra. I'll let you keep right on spouting your bs, and after the RV DOES happen, you'll never be heard from again, that is a fact.

  24. Stew 26th January 2011 at 17:55 #

    Pumpity Pump Pump... keep parroting the lies. The dealers are proud of your efforts.

  25. Stew 26th January 2011 at 18:06 #

    I truly wish we could bet money on this outcome. Whether there will be a huge 100,000% RV as you claim, or whether they will lop/redenominated as I say.
    If you could figure a way to put your money were your mouth is I’d be happy to bet you any amount you want. You’ve talked about your banker friend in LA, so I assume you either live there or travel there occasionally. I’m in LA myself.
    If we could find someone trustworthy willing to hold the money I’d be happy to do it.
    Please please please. Like taking money from a baby.

  26. Rabibi 26th January 2011 at 18:52 #

    JC & Stew

    If there is going to be a wager it needs to be in Dinars. If the Dinar doesn't RV and LOPs then Stew keeps the original purchase price of the Dinar. If the Dinar does RV then JC keeps the difference and Stew keeps the original purchase price. If it LOPs and RVs then JC still wins.

    For the entertainment of this forum

    If JC wins then Stew must submit a video on you tube of himself kissing a 25K Dinar note and praise JC as a brilliant investor

    If Stew wins then JC must submit a video on you tube of himself lighting a cigar with a 25K Dinar note saying what an excellent risk analyst Stew is.

  27. Stew 27th January 2011 at 10:14 #

    Rabibi... why in the world would I want to bet dinar? When the lop happens anyone holding dinar is likely to get shafted. The best outcome I see for dinar holders is they have to sell back to the dealers and they get maybe $500 per million. Worst case, dealers can't get the cash back to Iraq so they shut down business and disappear So I would win the bet but lose money... brilliant.
    I'm willing to walk into a lawyers office, draw up a bet, and leave $100K until this plays out. That's chump change for the multi millionaire JC. And a lop with a tiny RV would not make him the winner. I have said all along that's a possibility, I doubt it will happen, but there is a slim chance of it. JC has said no lop at all.
    The bet is I say there will be an exchnage of currency, 1000 current for 1 new. JC claims for every 1 dinar exchanged they will recieve 1 new dinar.

  28. Rabibi 27th January 2011 at 10:29 #

    Stew,

    It is the most fitting that the bet be in Dinar since this is the primary point of contention. If the dinar Lops and loses value then the bet could be structured that JC pays the difference.

  29. JC 28th January 2011 at 08:37 #

    Yes, I fly into LA on occasion. No, I live in Hawaii, but also own residents in Oregon, Nevada, Montana and New Hampshire. Find someone to trust to hold $100,000 in cash? Sounds very tempting.

    Ok, on to other things. Here is a news story that was published today, in several ME newspapers. I wonder what Stew thinks about this.

    THE DINAR TO RISE SOON Iraqi Dinar - Remarkable Rise Against Dollar

    And against us, to the page of economic (central bank adviser: the dinar will rise against the dollar in the coming period) "to expect an official source at the Iraqi Central Bank to see the dinar rise significantly against other currencies especially the dollar .. denied that the budget deficit next fiscal something negative, saying At the same time that most of the public budgets start deficit and ending with a surplus of Mali is Mdaorth .. The Chancellor and economic expert, the appearance of Mohammed Saleh (morning): that the public budget deficit is similar to the deficit in the economic structure in general, what calls for attention to processes such as how things can be that reflected negatively on the economic process in Iraq completely, and the Cabinet had recently approved the general budget for Iraq for next year 2011, amounting to $ 83 billion, depending on the value of export of oil amounting to 2.25 million barrels per day and at a price of $ 73 per barrel, But experts and specialists in the economic forecast to suffer the next budget deficit of $ 18 billion, which commented upon in favor by saying: not a question of negative to suffer the budget financial deficit, but to see the budget at the end of each year a financial surplus due to non-completion of many plans and projects, and also said: Every time you start the budget deficit, and ending with a surplus ... in exchange for the expectation of benefit to see the Iraqi dinar remarkable rise against other currencies especially the dollar, explaining that the size of financial returns to the oil, which rose dramatically during the past period compared with previous the past, as well as the situation called for Palmtdeda to the dollar in world markets, which can contribute according to Chancellor to raise the value of the dinar Iraqi against the dollar .. and the central bank's long been the deletion of three zeros from Iraqi dinar, in a move designed according to relevant to a reduction in value of inflation in Iraq and to the equality dinar to the dollar, as well as reducing the cluster enormous cash from the Iraqi currency to its lowest limit, however, observers have criticized the move by Galo it is not effective at this time, indicating that the deletion of three zeros from Iraqi dinar will not works to lower prices or improve quality of life, but it is a switch of the currency only, can not see prices drop because of it as far as saying .

    So, you have Chancellor Mohammed Saleh on record as stating this will happen, and very soon. It also states beyond a doubt that the removal of the 3 zeros will NOT lower prices nor improve the quality of life.

    Lastly, the Iraqi governments top priority is membership into the WTO. The WTO has told Iraq point blank, "No membership with a worthless currency". That, combined with the Iraqi's not taking dollars starting Feb 1st, means the dinar will be their only currency in use at the markets, and for trade. Makes you ponder everything.

    So Stew, dispute this news article with CURRENT links.

  30. gr 28th January 2011 at 08:42 #

    You know, 'some people' on this discussion keep screaming pumper. I have searched through this thread and can't find any links or advertisements for any dealers? Stew, I'm looking to buy some dinars. Could you direct me to somewhere in this post that is advertising for a dealer? Thanks...

    On second thought, I'll just go across the street here in Kuwait and buy it at face value. $860 per million. Nobody pumping over here...

  31. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 08:50 #

    JC,

    Great post. Please provide the link to the article. I would love to be able to pass it along to others.

  32. Stew 28th January 2011 at 09:06 #

    This is clearly stating a lop....
    "and the central bank’s long been the deletion of three zeros from Iraqi dinar, in a move designed according to relevant to a reduction in value of inflation in Iraq and to the equality dinar to the dollar, as well as reducing the cluster enormous cash from the Iraqi currency to its lowest limit, however, observers have criticized the move by Galo it is not effective at this time, indicating that the deletion of three zeros from Iraqi dinar will not works to lower prices or improve quality of life, but it is a switch of the currency only, can not see prices drop because of it as far as saying ."
    It talks about reducing the "cluster enormous cash". that's the 27 trillion in circulation, the lop will reduce it to 27 billion. Your fantasy plan doesn't reduce it one single dinar.
    The Critic, Galo, is against the lop because he says it's just "a switch of the currency only". That is a lop. Switching currency. If it was a 100,000% RV as you claim then this Galo guy would be the spupidest man on earth for claiming it wouldn't improve quality of life. How could a 100,000% RV not improve quality of life??
    That is a true statement about a lop, a lop is revenue nutral and doesn't change prices or improve quality of life. Just a currency switch.

  33. gr 28th January 2011 at 09:08 #

    "however, observers have criticized the move by Galo it is not effective at this time, indicating that the DELETION OF THREE ZEROS from Iraqi dinar WILL NOT WORK to lower prices or improve quality of life, but it is a switch of the currency only, can not see prices drop because of it as far as saying ."

    What part of 'will not work' don't you understand? This will not get agreed upon for a long time.

  34. Stew 28th January 2011 at 09:22 #

    GR... are you familiar with the term "a rising tide lifts all boats".

    Plus... most of the dealers/websites all feed back into the same supplier.
    Back when I was into the dinar, was friends with a very respected poster on the biggest dinar site at the time. He was very pro-dinar. As he became more educated on the dinar and saw the lies being spread he became disillusioned and decided to leave the investment and the big dinar web site. He sent me an e-mail that he received from the guy running the web site. It begged him to stay onboard and they offered to start paying him for his post. I know for a fact that there are paid posters on dinar boards whose job is pump you up. Most of the dinar boards are run by dealers… they are not open honest discussion forums about the dinar.

  35. JC 28th January 2011 at 09:27 #

    Rabibi,
    Here is the link. https://currencynewshound.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/cbi-adviser-dinar-will-rise-against-the-dollar-in-the-coming-period/

    Stew, what part of "IT WILL NOT WORK" are you overlooking? The entire LOP theory has been proven wrong. What is Iraq's inflation rate today? 3%. What was Iraq's inflation rate last year? 3.7%. What was their inflation rate in 2009? 4.6%. Inflation has been reduced from a staggering 60% down to 3%. NO country has ever LOPPED a currency who's inflation rate is 3%.

    Also, WTO membership. No comments or facts on that? They want it worse than ANYTHING on their plate.

    The US owns 51% of the CBI. The US is in partnership with the Rothchild's, who also own several other central banks.

  36. Stew 28th January 2011 at 10:04 #

    JC... you bltant lies are so stupid they don't deserve a reply. You claim that the WTO has told them they can't join with a worthless currency is preposterous.
    Zimbabwe is in in the WTo for gooness sakes... LOL
    Vietnam is in the WTO... rate 19,660:1
    Turkey is in the WTO... they had a low rate before they lopped.
    Italy is is in the WTO... their rate was 1500:1 before going to the Euro.
    Japan is about 100:1
    There are many that have or have had very low exchange rates in the WTO.
    LOL
    And you are still pushing the pumper lie that coutries with low inflation don't lop even though I have shown you a university study that shows that it is much prefered to wait until inflation is under control before lopping. I have linked it in this thread a couple times for you. yet you ignore it and continue to push the lie.
    Perfect example of a PUMPER.

  37. Stew 28th January 2011 at 10:14 #

    http://www.unc.edu/%7Elmosley/APSA%202005.pdf

    “Hypothesis 2: Redenomination is more likely following a period of high inflation and a subsequent stabilization. A dramatic downward movement in inflation increases the probability of a redenomination”.

    “Indeed, 2004 was the first year of single-digit inflation in Turkey since 1972, making 2005 an apt time to reinforce the commitment to low inflation.”

    How many days before you push the same blatant lie again?

  38. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 11:01 #

    Stew,

    Thank you for the information. After reading the article it seems more unlikely that the Iraqi Dinar will not redenominate. The table in the article sites extraordinary high inflation. The other hypothesis sited in the article says;

    "Hypothesis 1: Both authoritarian and democratic governments may have political reasons for redenomination. Democratic governments are likely to redenominate in response to high inflation. Authoritarian governments may redenominate even without high inflation, particularly in the presence of civil conflict."

    Iraq is not experiencing high inflation and there is currently no "civil war," although the insurgency seems to be trying their hardest to create one.

    "Hypothesis 2: Redenomination is more likely following a period of high inflation and a subsequent stabilization. A dramatic downward movement in inflation increases the probability of a redenomination. This is particularly likely in countries that are more open to international capital flows, that are under an IMF adjustment program, and that have politically independent central banks."

    There are many other hypothesis sited in the article but none of them show an example of a country that redenominated their currency when inflation was low. Maybe I missed something but I would be interested in seeing an example of where a country with low inflation had a redenomination occur without a war, invasion or political overthrow happening.

  39. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 11:03 #

    Correction to Above Post: It seems unlikely that the IQD will redenominate.

  40. Stew 28th January 2011 at 11:35 #

    Rabibi… look at the chart, Table 1. It shows the years that they had high inflation. Then out to the right it shows if they redenominated and when. Many of the countries redenominated years after the high inflation.
    I even cut a pasted the part about Turkey getting their inflation down to single digits and then lopping.

    Lets look at the hypothesis
    Hypothesis 1: Both authoritarian and democratic governments may have political reasons for redenomination. Democratic governments are likely to redenominate in response to high inflation. Authoritarian governments may redenominate even without high inflation, particularly in the presence of civil conflict.

    Democratic Govs redenominate in response to high inflation. That’s why Iraq is redenominating. They suffered massive inflation in the ninties.

    Hypothesis 2: Redenomination is more likely following a period of high inflation and a subsequent stabilization. A dramatic downward movement in inflation increases the probability of a redenomination. This is particularly likely in countries that are more open to international capital flows, that are under an IMF adjustment program, and that have politically independent central banks.

    This one fits Iraq perfectly. They had massive inflation, they have gotten it under control. They are also under an IMF adjustment program. The Stand By Arrangement is just that.
    Perfect example of Iraq.

    Hypothesis 3: Redenomination is more likely immediately after an election (or with many years remaining until the next election), less likely immediately before an election, and more likely in more fractionalized political systems.

    Iraq recently had an election. Probably not a big deal either way though.

    Hypothesis 4: Redenomination is less likely, all else equal, when left-leaning parties are in office, and more likely when right-leaning politicians hold office.

    Doesn’t really apply to Iraq

    Hypothesis 5: Redenomination is more likely in nations where it has been used in the past. The total past experience with redenomination increases the hazard of its use.

    Don’t think Iraq has ever redenominated, but certainly doesn’t mean they wont.

    Hypothesis 6: Redenomination is more likely, all else equal, where foreign currency substitution is more prevalent in the domestic economy. This is more likely in nations with high inflation, with high local currency/dollar ratios; and foreign currency substitution is more likely after 1989 (as financial globalization expands) than before.

    This fits Iraq. They have had trouble with dollarization.

    Hypothesis 7: Redenomination is a more likely response to economic problems in more heterogeneous societies, and in younger nation-states.
    I think under the circumstances of being freed from dictator, I would consider Iraq a young nation-state.

    Finally… the most important thing. The Central Bank of Iraq has stated they want to redenominate. They have said it will happen and all they are waiting on is some passage from Parliament.
    Yes… like all policies, there are critics. They have said it will not help because it’s just an illusion. So what!! Yes it’s an illusion. But people are embarrassed by their currency and having normal denominations again is good for the psyche of the people. And all accounting will be easier due to money supply being reduced from Trillions back to Billions.

  41. JC 28th January 2011 at 11:48 #

    The point about WTO membership is NO country, on the outside, trying to get in, has been admitted to the WTO in modern times, with a currency this worthless, combined with the HUGE amount of resources available. Let's not forget 500 BILLION BARRELS OF PROVEN OIL reserves.

    Stewart, your own stupidity is beyond belief. Of course the WTO can't control a country who's currency drops dramatically due to the current political and financial climate. It wasn't that long ago that the Yen was very strong against the dollar. And, you want to try and compare Zimbabwe with virtually no redeeming value, to Iraq? Iraq:

    #1 in proven oil reserves with 50% of the country still unexplored
    #1 in proven natural gas reserves
    #4 in gold
    was #1 in date exports before the war

    Has some of the most sought after religious sites in the world.

    Shell, BP, Chevron and numerous foreign oil companies falling all over themselves to get into Iraq for new exploration. Also, starting Feb 1st, the dollar is replaced in country for all transactions. You call me a pumper, but show us a single post where I've said to buy any dinar from any specific dealer. You can't!

    Also, while some of the dinar sites are in the pocket of dinar dealers, there are still some who are not. I haven't been at DV in months. I do frequent 2 that have nothing to do with any dealer. There are several very good neutral sites for the dinar investor, without all the "pumping" that you see on others.

  42. Stew 28th January 2011 at 12:26 #

    Again you lie...
    Look at this list. It is cutries in the WTO and when they joined.
    http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm

    Italy... 1995. there exchange rate was 1500:1 at the time. They also had about the 5th largest economy in the world. Far surpassing anything Iraq currently has.
    Vietnam just joined in 2007, we all know their rate has been has been poop for years because the same dealers/pumpers pushing dinars were also pushing dong. Their rate was in the 16,000:1 area when they joined the WTO and again they also have a GDP bigger than Iraq.
    The list is full of countries that joined with low exchange rates.

    So stop pushing pumper lies, or produce a link that shows the WTO told Iraq they have to RV. You can't, because it doesn't exist. Like so many other supposed facts regarding the dinar... they only exist in the minds of pumpers and those gullible enough to follow them.

  43. Stew 28th January 2011 at 12:35 #

    You know… you may not be a pumper. But that’s not really a good thing.
    If are a pumper and know that you are pushing lies then you are simply duplicitous. You might be smart but you are deceitful.
    If you are not a pumper then it worse. It shows you are amazingly gullible and simple minded.
    Whichever category you fit in… neither is good for giving out investment advice.

    You are one or the other… take your pick.

  44. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 13:23 #

    Stew,

    According to the table that you referenced the only country that did not redenominate within 1-4 years of high inflation was Mexico which has high inflation reported in 1988 and it did not redenominate until 1993. I'm interested in doing the same analysis for Iraq and comparing it to the chart. What has Iraqs inflation been for the last 4-5 years? In all the cases sited the inflation ranged from 100% to 7000% which is a pretty big spread.

  45. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 13:29 #

    Stew,

    According to the attached chart Iraq's inflation was 28% in 2004 and has declined steadily the 6-7 years. This is no where near the inflationary rates sited in the table for countries that redenominated their currency

    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=iz&v=71

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/inflation-gdp-deflator-annual-percent-wb-data.html

    Not sure if these charts are the most accurate but the numbers a very close.

  46. Stew 28th January 2011 at 13:42 #

    remeber that those are just guidlines. There are no set rules for when it has to happen. Iraq's big inflation numbers were back in the ninties. that's when they had 1000% inflation numbers. But they have been in turmoil ever since, so I can see why there would be a long period.
    The main thing here is... They have said they will redenominate.

  47. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 13:49 #

    Stew,

    I think Iraq is a different scenario at least historically compared to other nations. There sure seems to be conflicting quotes from the politcal leaders on a redenomination or their currency vs the value of the currency. The article you send articulates that politics play a big role and it would seem that you have those in Iraq from the right and the left per say...one group or individual that wants a redenomination and others that want to see the value of the dinar go up first.

  48. JC 28th January 2011 at 14:29 #

    How is this for a link, from Iraq's Ministry of Planning:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=ar|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mop.gov.iq%2Fmop%2Findex.jsp%3Fsid%3D1%26id%3D308%26pid%3D295%26lng%3Den

    I especially LOVE this part, "Estimate the amended exchange rate of the Iraqi dinar to be used in technical and economical feasibility studies and for (1.134) dollar per dinar. This price should be approved for 3 years until re-appreciation by the competent authorities".

    So, even at a rate of $1.134, those who are invested, even with just 100,000 dinar, will realize a tremendous gain.

  49. Stew 28th January 2011 at 16:43 #

    Rabibi... Iraq really is no different than those countries. Inflation is inflation. A lop is to remove the effects of that inflation.
    As for the articles you talk about? Do you really blieve there are article where the Gov has said they will increase the value of the dinar 100,000%? They would never do such a thing. Kuwait and China recently RVd and they never mentioned it and denied any rumors of it right up till it happened... and that was for 1% RVs.
    If Iraq even remotely mentioned such a thing the value of the currency would skyrocket. There would be pandemonium in the streets. People would literally be killing each other to get dinar.

    The article JC references. It gives no details about study. No one knows what it means. There were many delete 3 zero articles that stated they would have to do studies abvout it... It very well could be a study of the rate for a lop. It also is already 3 or 4 years old.

  50. Rabibi 28th January 2011 at 16:56 #

    Stew,

    I do not think that the Dinar will increase 100,000%. I anticipate it moving up to the regional average of approx 0.26 cents over time. I would be very surprised to see the currency go up to where Kuwaits is. Saudi Arabia is at approx 0.26 cents and they have a stable gov with no security issues. Going from less than a penny to a regional average of 0.26 cents is still a very significant increase. Going from less than a penny to 0.5 cents is significant. Such a scenario is both plausible and feasible and is the speculative risk of investing in the IQD.